Do we have a moral right to build snowmen with our families instead of going to work?

[lucyellensmumagain]

I have just listened to a surreal argument on radio in which it was put forward that we have a moral right to stay home and play snowmen with our children instead of going to work? That it is far more important to do this than go and earn money?

The woman arguing against it didnt really put much of an argument forward for the other side really.

So, is it more important to just say - OMG snow, we might not get this for another five years i HAVE to stay home and make snow men?

Its not about that is it? If it is safe to go to work then yes, you should go - but if its not safe then no you shoudlnt have to go inm, if your childs school is closed then obviously you can't go in.

But it is important to take these opportunities with our kids isn't it? It doesnt happen very often?

But then what about the employers? Should they have to subsidise this - I rather feel that if you have time off in the snow then you shouldnt get paid, or you take annual leave. Easy for me i guess, im a SAHM - but really interested to hear other peoples points of view.

My DP is self employed and has gone into work today, but it was safe to do so (please God) He of course doesn't get paid if he doesnt go in, and it would piss his clients off.

I'm firmly on the fence

I must say that I think the practice of employers pressurising people into travelling when it is potentially dangerous is pretty morally dubious.

Our waitroseman turned up in weather he really shouldnt ahve done (of course I was grateful), he couldnt even try our road soaprked away and carried our food.

I asked if he had been orderd to goout, he said not exactly but that itb ws pretty closeand he'dthoght he was a gonner a few times en route.

barmy

Play for free. No pay for free. Freedom of choice.

I'd love to stay at home and play all day - the threat of losing my leave day or pay does focus the mind.

I'm not advocating not playing but won't risk my job especially when I'm lucky enough to have one.

...and I walked 3 miles down a snow/ice strewn road to the nearest main road today to catch a bus...well that's a lie - about 2 miles and then a rather cool farmer in a very big blue tractor (nearly squashed me) - not like that - took pity on me and gave me a lift the rest of the way...so exciting for little me - DS was really jealous!!!

AsYouWere, I am so jealous. How cool to be able to walk down a country lane THEN have a ride on a tractor to get to work. You must feel great by the time you get to work. Better than driving through heavy traffic and manic stressed drivers for 1 hour and arriving at work already stressed.

I have just seen a news report re snow in Nth Yorkshire. Has sobered me up quite considerably. I guess it's not as magical as it sounds. Good luck to everyone and stay happy if possible.

"Surely this is really an argument about spending time with your family not building snowmen".

As summed up perfectly by Aligrylls - snow and snowmen come and go, but the world can't stop for us all when the snow falls. Every season/ weather phenomenon/ sunny day/ whatever might give us a reason to stay off work and school. We can't have all of these days, but the trick is to be prepared to grab the ones that we can have, and to recognise the beauty of the ones we have to let go.

There is an argumenyt for flexible employers building one or two days into the year that can be taken as childcare /snow days / etc paid,and if not used become part of the holiday entitlement for the next year.

Its something we would aim for (partly becuase of where we live,dangerous roads and all that, and the fact we haven't seen any stock delviered in a week anyway).

We cannot move our car; the main road 200 yards away is safe,nbut the car ismiored in ice, and it's a downhill slope. The boys are upset hbecuase the wholeschoolwas due at the theatre today: head announced it was goinga head at 6, by 9 it was cancelled. rightly so, the school is under 6" snow with only the one set of tracks through it all!.

How it is all approached has to start with safety and geographic locality (generic threads saying 'teahcers,school, Now!' areirrleevant if you live in the Welsh Valleys, Scotland or anywhere remote). Everything else comes later but of course responsibility to he who pays your wage comes in there, if the business goes under you lose too.

At the moment I am on ML (so my 5p's worth may not actually be worth 5p), but when I'm back at work one of the main parts of my job is to make chemotherapy for cancer patients. Am I supposed to pop up to the oncology centre and tell the patient's there that I'm off home to have a snowball fight? Who decides which professions are worthy of risking the drive to work? My DP is self-employed and has gone off to work today in his massive rear-wheel drive van. Of course I would much rather he stayed home safe, but if he does we can't afford to have the heating on. Talk about catch 22!

I'm not saying everyone should try and get to work while the roads are like this, and of course parents who's children are off school/nursery have to stay home, but I think that people should at least try to go about their daily life as normally as possible, as much as it is safe to do so.

I agree, but what if the emergency services employees can't get through on roads that are littered by abandoned cars from teachers and parents of school kids? Certainly that is what has hapened near us. I totally appreciate your point and agree that we should try and carry on as normal, but I would have thought it would make more sense for special arrangements to be made for picking up essential staff suchas yourself by the local police/fire brigade etc to ensure you can get to work and home again safely.

The other point RE essential staff is that there has to be a back up plan anyway

If schools and childcare areclosed,aprents can't get in. Unless they are lucky enough to have family to ask, then they themselves are option free.

So whilst of course essentialworkers have to try to get through, there will always be soem that cannot for very basic infrastructure reasons, therefore any service running in an acceptable manner will have back up plans.

This is trilpy the case in adverse weather when the aprents /siblings etc whomight nirmally be calle dupon are likely to have their own transport issues just toreach anyone; my sister is an emergency staffmember and i'd normally be happy to be tehre if she needed me, but (and fortruantely Mum is closer) I am snowe din myself and couldn't possibly reach her.

Man, I would love a snow day. I haven't even had a snow hour. Nothing. Nada. I've been one of a few in my team who have managed to make it in, and on time, over the last few days, and it sucks. I have ended up staying late all week to try and keep on top of the work and I'm shattered.

In an ideal world, it would be awesome to announce one day a year, where everyone was off and got to spend time with their friends/family and have a whale of a time, playing in snow or in the sunshine, but practically, that couldn't happen. I was looking at pictures of the New York black out (2006 I think) and it looked amazing; I wish London could do the same.

Anyway, back to work [sigh]

I wish there was an effective backup plan Peachy, but in reality the powers-that-be in the hospital don't really give two figs for how many staff we have in the CIVAS unit. Some of the day patients will not be able to come in, so that does reduce the workload somewhat, but the majority of patients make herculean efforts to get in and get their drugs (fair play to them).

If we are severely short-staffed and chemotherapy is late we have AIR (Adverse Incident Reports) filled out against us, and we are investgated by the big bosses in Risk Management. It pisses me off immensely as we work as hard as we possibly can to get things done on time. Same for the rest of the hospital, the doctors want to discharge as many patients as humanly possible and because the pharmacy are so short-staffed I know some of my collegues are having to do more than three times as much work as they normally do and working well into the night. We also don't get paid for this overtime, so it's not even as if it's lucrative for them!

Mind you, I wish the fireman would take me to work. I'd go back early for that!

peachy your flex plan is interesting, but thinking about it almost everywhere I've worked people have put in unpaid overtime totting up to days additional work over the year. To then dock pay when people genuinely can't/shouldn't try to get to work seems excessively tight for these types of employers, which I imagine are the majority.

It seems that there's no give and take, only take.

If I exercise my moral rights on this one, my students will fail their exams. Not worth it imho- I can build snowmen after dark if necessary. The beauty about snow is it lights the world up so you can do things in the evenings.

If my children had been younger I would have had to bring them on a 2 hour round trip to my workplace as schools are the only workplaces closed around here (instead I left them with a list of chores ). Fair enough if you really can't get in, but seems a bit unlikely that this would only be affecting teachers, particularly as this is a large town, roads are clear with no ice on them, and all the buses are running.

I'msonot, fair point, places I have worked veer between the 'everything you have is ours, and that includes all your time and any penny we might be able to dock off you'and nice,warm friendly places.

nicewarmpalcesdon'tneed much changem, they know their staff and manage them well. the others- well....

The thing they forget is that people work harder and better, and stay longer with employers who treat them well. Not stinging over a day or two for snow would fall into the treating them well book.
And for a good employer, people will work extra hard to get up to speed when they get back. So the end result will be good all round.
Now how to convince the employers

Surely that depends on the work you do, ISNT? I can't expect my students to do two weeks learning in one just because I wanted to play in the snow. Surgeon can't do twice as many operations. Shops can't expect us to stop eating until next week.

I was going to say it's mainly office roles where that applies! It is the most of my experience.

With shops I think that people normally live nearer to work, and so there is likely to be less issue with people getting in.

Factories and the like not so great either.

But an awful lot of people do do jobs with unpaid overtime and they are getting shafted IMO.

I am not sure where I have said people should play in the snow either? I am coming at this from a perspective of people who can't or shouldn't travel into work and are having their pay docked etc, I think the thread has moved on to emcompass that.

It really depends on the job, I guess, but thinking about it - a small company would be seriously damaged if members of staff expected paying for "snow days" yep - we have a moral responsibility to make snowmen, but we shouldnt expect to be paid for it - i think it should be taken as annual leave.

Today was fantastic - DD off school (finally, hers has been open all week ) and me and a friend took our girls sledging - i will have those pictures in my mind for the rest of my lives, we haven't seen snow like this in our area for at least 10 years and may not do so again - im so thankful that i didnt have to go to work today and felt really sad for those (DP included) who did.

Thinking more about this, what astounds me is actually we are put in this situation by a lack of infrastructure. We are simply not prepared for the snow, us soft southerners that is - we were 5 miles away from our home the other day, the road was a main road, it should have been gritted - but we almost had to abandon our car - absolutely cannot expect people to go to work under those circs. It highlights that there needs to me more resources available to cope with severe weather conditions.

It's only snow, people get so pathetic and selfish about it. No, of course people do have have a right to stay home and make snowman! How childish to think that it's a right to not go to a job you are paid for!

Blimey katty, steady on - i wasn't being literal!

Of course its lovely if you can get a day off to build a snowman, and you absolutely shouldnt be penalised if it not safe for you to get into work either.

And whats wrong exactly, with being childish once in a while - go on, lighten up or i'll snowball ya!

I meant it reply to the OP's person on the radio not you! I've played with DS a lot in the snow, but in my own time, not time someone would be paying me for.

Ooops I see you ARE the OP the person YOU talked about on the radio

I cannot possibly be the only person who could think of a hundred and one things I'd rather do than build snowmen in the snow

It's just cold, the novelty soon wears off.