To think I may have just dicovered one of the reasons why so many people are on benefits and don't work?

[Hando]

I have always worked. Always. I was made redundant 11 weeks ago so have been on Income Support (I have a 5yr old dc) since then.

I start work next week in my new job. My employer has said all new starters will receive their first pay 24th Feb as we will have missed the payroll for this month - which is fair enough. They are a huge company and very well known, they have told me they do not give pay advances under any circumstances.

I just called the benefits helpline and have been informed that my Income Support stops the day I start my job. Surely it should be the day you get paid? That is the day you actually have your wages in order to support yourself. That would make far too much sense.

But... if you have been on Jobseekers or income support more than 26 weeks you get given a "back to work bonus" to help cover your bills/food etc until you get your first pay. If you have been out of work for over a year not only do you get this but you also get regular monthly payments for a set period as part of an extra back to work bonus. WTF? How unbelieveably backward is that? It would cost them more to pay me I/S until I get to the 26 week date (another 15 weeks) than it would to pay me I/S until I get paid (6 weeks).

So, if I sat on my bum watching Jeremy Kyle, sitting on MN and eating cookies (as I have been) for another few months at the tax payers expense I'd be entitled to a bonus for this, but as I got a job quickly and will be paying back into "the pot" much sooner I get left with nothing. When I said I had a child to look after, bills to pay etc she said "but you get your monthly child benefit, couldn't you use that?" Oh yes! £80 a month child benefit - that wouldn't even pay the food bill.

As it happens, I do have some money I can use to tide me over and pay it back. BUT that's not the point. Many people - especially parents do not have spare cash or even friends and family to borrow from.

Annoyed me a bit.

Anyone agree with this?

YANBU at all. I don't understand why people are so weird about this subject. Those who work are discriminated against in this country.

No it's no fun long term Laquitar- but isn't that the whole point. It should be a temporary measure for people to get back on their feet and back to work. Not a long term alternative to not working.

benefits, although meagre and stressful to claim for do give an element of stability.
i was unemployed for a few months a year ago, and when i started working for an agency who could not guarantee me the work required for tax credits etc, i felt quite daunted!!
however i live miles from anywhere/anything and need a car, and could not have afforded to run my car on benefits long term.
think the system's a bit muddled

Well i dont know, i run a small business and i had thousand applications for 4 vacancies that i advertised. So i assumed that people are genuinely looking for job and it is sad ifthey cant find one.

But you are saying that there are many jobs and i cant argue with this because i havn't been on job hunting.

I agree Hando - it's shit.

"You got paid income support starting from the day you were out of work didn't you?"

yes she will have got her £64.30 (actuall probably 2 weeks worth in the first payment) 2 weeks or so after she started work.

I think most people get paid after their last day of work - probably a months salary yes??? So in theory can make it through the next month

Anyone coming off IS before 6 months will get a final payment of £64.30........that might be ok if you start work in the middle of the month and get paid a week or so later......but if your last IS payment is on the 1st of the month, and you don't get paid until the 31st - well you're supposed to magic up money for the remaining 3 weeks of the month.....

and yes it's a cash flow problem that those that have been on benefits for MORE than 6 months DON'T have to contend with. The longer you are out of work the more help you get (financially) to get back into work - that cash flow issue is sorted out for you by the benefits........if you get off your arse (or simply get lucky - as jobs are often hard to come by) and find a job within 6 months you're supposed to just "suck it up".

Maristella - I have to say I did not find them hard to claim at all. I walked into my local job centre plus with all my id that I assumed I'd need; Passport, redundancy proof, driving licence etc. Saw an advisor, signed forms and it was done. I was there about an 45mins. No further visits would be necessary for some time as I claimed I/S, no sending stuff off, no checks no nothing. Eas

Could have written that myself awassailing

Why did you claim income support rather than jobseekers? Out of interest.

What is wrong with you lot? (Aimed at those of you who can't see what the problem is)

Benefits are an insurance system to help you when you need it. I'm guessing Hando has paid more than enough taxes to cover her 'insurance' for this period. It's not free money, it's money you HAVE PAID FOR through your taxes, and are entitled to, to help you in times of hardship.

If people are being left without money between the day they start work and the first payday, then this will be causing hardship.

If there are kids involved, then there will be children affected as a result. Hando say she has people to help her with this time - there will be thousands who don't.

If people are being left with no money in these circumstances - which must be common - , then I would say this is a problem with the way the system is designed. People shouldn't be left with no income because they have got a job.

What are people with no savings and no family to help supposed to do in this situation? Not take the job?

Hando it may well be worth seeing if you are entitled to a Crisis Loan which I think comes from the Social Fund. I believe (please correct me people if I am wrong!) that you don't need to be signing on to get it.

Here is some info on Crisis Loans

Message withdrawn

Spot on LowRib, I agree entirely.

TBH I think your new employer is being a little unreasonable not to offer flexibility, but its fair that your entitlement stops the day you start work.... just bad timing on the new jobs start date.

But as you say you have some spare money so why does this matter.

re: the long term unemployed, i think they get the benefit as they are harder to motivate into work. sad but true.

But its my view that benefits here esp for long term unemployed (rather than people between jobs) are too generous and hence thats why so many people can't be bothered to work...

Social fund crisis loans would help if you had no other money to tide you over. They would ask for a letter from your employer to confirm that they couldnt advance you some wages (which they really should)

Am not going to get into the debate about life on benefits being easy...except to say it isnt brillant long term, the system does have it flaws..good and bad, but Im glad you found it so easy to claim....most people experience long delays.

YANBU.

I can see the temptation in waiting until you have been on IS for 6 months before getting a job.

After 6 months, not only do you get a back to work bonus, but you also get 4 weeks of housing benefit and council tax benefit paid too, not to mention the CTC, WTC, CB, and wages too.

Also, the job you are starting, if it is indeed after 6 months on IS, only needs to be expected to last you 5 weeks or more.

If your job unfortunately doesn't work out (for whatever reason, jobcentre don't ask reasons when it comes to IS, and if they do, you have no obligation to give them a reason) before the 5 weeks is up, well you get to keep your nice little back to work bonus, all benefits are resumed, and yr IS will only be reduced by how much WTC you get.

So you could go for a job every 6 months, believing it is going to last at least 5 weeks, and hey presto, a nice little bonus.

After 12 months on benefits, you are right, as well as the 6 monthly bonus, you get a £40 a week bonus, tax free every week for a year, that doesn't affect your HB/CTB/tax credits etc etc.

I have heard that after 18 months on benefit, you are entitled to a 3 monthly bus pass too, which if you find a job just after receiving your bus pass, there is no obligation to return the bus pass, and you can use it to get to your new job for the first 3 months.

Of course, if you are lucky enough to find a job sooner than 6 months, there's no such help for you.

I often wondered if it would be a better idea to offer all of this if you managed to find work in under 6 months, on the basis that you could only claim the help maximum of once or twice a year perhaps?

"TBH I think your new employer is being a little unreasonable not to offer flexibility, but its fair that your entitlement stops the day you start work.... just bad timing on the new jobs start date."

You're totally missing the point the OP is making.

IF she had been out of work for more than 6 months, then she WOULD have been entitled to money to help see her through a potentially long period without any money.

Because she was lucky and got a job within 6 months she DOESN'T get the help.

"But as you say you have some spare money so why does this matter."

It matters because a lot of people DON'T have any spare money to help them through that period.

"re: the long term unemployed, i think they get the benefit as they are harder to motivate into work. sad but true. "

Sorry to break your little bubble but there are many people desperately seeking work right now who end up being on benefits for longer than 6 months because they haven't managed to get a job despite their very best (genuine efforts).

I had this problem when i started at uni ,basically what i did was ,i didnt tell them what i was doing until i got my bursary and then pretended to be ignorant to the ways of the dss , they accepted my explanation and i paid the money back at a nominal amount each month ,far better in my opinion than going into debt .

BTW even if she had been entitled to all those work incentives she probably wouldnt have receieved them quickly because of the huge backlog on benefit processing anyway.

OP, surely you will be entitled to TC and CTC unless you earn over £66K

She is on I.S as she has a child under 9 (changing to 7 this Oct). Therefore does not have to be actively seeking work. It used to be aged 16 but the government have been reducing the age for the past few years.