to keep phoning my cowboy kitchen fitter

[ThatVikRinA22]

i had a kitchen fitted by a man who fitted the kitchen in my last house. the one in my last house was lovely. this one isnt. its crap to be honest. really really crap. the sinks keep coming out of their clips so you can literally push it from underneath and the whole thing lifts up, (2 sinks - both do the same and ive PAID for this to be fixed already and the new ones does the exact same thing)....the hob is crap....the worktops have faded....the oven door laquer is coming off....the cooker hood has rain pee in everytime we get a heavy shower....the tap keeps coming unscrewed everytime it swivels...

but the bloke who fitted it didnt give me any warranty or anything with it, and i paid in cash. i am stooopid but i trusted him cos he had done my last kitchen so well.

i lost it tonight and rang him AGAIN. he says he will come and look at it but doesnt think there is much he can do....
oh thats fine then. ill just wave goodbye to my 5 grand....

AIBU to keep phoning him with everything that goes wrong with it? its only 2 years old, and its had problems from day 1. im just not shirty enough and i really dont know what to do about it.
im sat here with the numbers of 3 estate agents. i just want to run away and start again in a house thats not falling to sodding pieces despite throwing money at it.

im pricing up what it will cost to fix it all and its making me so angry, if i have to pay i might as well pay someone to do it properly but it will involve new worktops, hob, and im paying twice in 2 years!

Ive had a word with a mates hubby who says ive not got a leg to stand on...which i sort of knew, but should i try to insist that he puts this crap right? or cut my losses and pay someone to sort it properly? or sell the fucking house? honestly....im at that point now.

I've had LOADS of cowboy workmen do jobs for me!!
It's very annoying & makes you angry ALL the time, but keep on at him.
Try and get him to pay to put in right (or at least pay 50% of it) if he can't sort himself.
If things turn nasty, threaten him with trading standards. If you've paid cash he'll be worried about the tax man finding out, so really will not want to go down that route.
If still no joy, follow your threat through and phone trading standards, they'll ask you to write to him in the first instance, give him a deadline to respond & send it recorded delivery.
DON'T sell your house! Most things can be sorted without too much cost involved.

Did you supply the kitchen or did he? You must have spec'd up the hob, worktops, etc. How is it his fault if the worktops are fading and door laquer is coming off? Yes some of the faults are of his doing but sounds like you have picked a shoddy kitchen and his workmanship has made it worse.

Speak to trading standards before you phone find out the exact procedure you need to follow. Then phone him, tell him you have had enough, you have contacted TS and will now be starting the 'process' unless he comes and fixes it satisfactorily. Also take lots of photos now before he touches it again.

My DP is a carpenter - he hates fitting kitchens and will not fit cheap ones (get someone else to do it is what he will say), the expectations of the client are streets apart from what the kitchen actually is. He likens it to making a silk purse from a pigs ear. Unless you have a DECENT, aka expensive kitchen you are basically faced with crappy carcasses that you have to adjust to make them fit properly, no room for adjustment with uneven walls etc. Yet the client has this dream of perfection because they are actually spending a lot of money in their terms.

It sounds to me like the kitchen you have is a cheapo one - did you choose it yourself? Hardly the builders fault if the mechandise is substandard - unless he supplied it as somethign it isn't.

If i had a client ring me after TWO YEARS to complain about issues i would be saying, Yes Mrs OP, DP will come round and have a look, and the cost will be £25 an hour. Of course, if someone rang up straight away with a problem then that would be quite different so if you have been ringing him right from the start then YANBU, however if you have left it two years then YABU and a bit mad.

The only issue i can see that potentially would have been your builder's fault is the cooker hob but after two years, your DHs friend is right - you don't have a leg to stand on. Even with a warranty, two years???

If the workmanship was shoddy then you shouldnt have paid, my DP will have an inspection of his work with the client when he has finished, pick up on any "snagging" and make sure that the client is happy before he is paid - that payment tells him teh client is happy with the standard of work (which of course they always are because he is GOOD).

There are often problems that arise out of building works and a good tradesmen will put them right - but after two years - tis taking the piss!

he supplied and fitted the kitchen.

and the problems began with the first month. i found out he basically wanted cash in hand because he is employed by a firm of kitchen fitters but did this on the side, using their products but charging less for them.

the kitchen is tiny. 7 base units and 6 wall units. it cost me 5 1/2 thousand pounds. this kitchen should have been bloody all singing all dancing for that.

anyway - ive given up. im calling estate agents. and a joiner.

I can remcommend my DP!!

Your kitchen is about twice the size of ours

My DP charges about 2K to fit a kitchen so that would leave 3 for units and appliances which sounds about right. Was this guy Gas safe registered and have part - P electrical installation certificate? If not, he was breaking the law - but cash in hand, you have no proof

Don't move house because of your kitchen woman!!

seriously i just feel like giving up. everything ive done on this house has fallen to pieces within 2 years. the bathroom is another case in point and i used a local firm with a good reputation, within weeks there was a gap between the bath and the wall which leaks so ive got a mouldy wall. they came back. nothing they can do about it cos my wall isnt straight - well they plastered the friggin thing!! and the old bath was fine up against it!

this house was gonna be gutted, and i was so excited about starting from scratch. i put up with builders and dust and no fridge for a year for it - instead its me thats gutted.

just want to leave it now, ive lost interest in putting it right and ive no money left. im just completely fed up.

seriously if i can break even im selling the sodding thing

if he runs his own company tell him you will get a winding up order issued unless he sorts it out. You can do this via the web and have it served on him. We did this when a company refused to pay DH and alot of companies don't realise you can do this.

Or that you will issue county court proceedings for the cost of rectification.

In order to do either of those I would suggest you get somebody else in to size up exactly what the problems are and what they will cost to rectify.

Agree with the Trading Standards route.

Is he a member of any Trade organisations?

The trouble is bigbadmummy, its been TWO YEARS!!!

yep - TWO years of ongoing constant problems. its not just like ive rung him out of the blue two years later ffs. its been ONGOING for TWO years ( ive used the capitals as you appear to feel the need)

what i was trying to get my own head around was do i continue to flog a dead horse trying to get this so - ahem- workman to put right the job or do i cut my losses and either sell up or pay for someone to come and do it again. and then shop him to the tax man. he does this every weekend - orders parts from his own firm and then charges less cash in hand to do the job than the company would charge. con man. i should have run screaming when i realised.

My DP used to do this, its common practice - its not conning people - they tend to be happier as they get a cheaper job. However, my DP would do a decent job and go back on any complaints.

I am sorry i thought that you meant that you had had problems for TWO YEARS and only just contacted him. I'm on your side!

however, if there is no paperwork to say that he did the job - i can't see what comeback you have - its very difficult. The problems with the actual material would be down to the supplier - i know he supplied it, but any comeback would be through the company that he bought them from - and it has probably gone out of the garuntee time.

On the times when you have contacted him, what response have you had?

Can I ask, what exactly did you get for the 5k you mentioned?

lucy - he keeps coming back, replaces bits or fixes things but charges me. the sink for eg, is a small round stainless steel bowl,i have 2 of em. he charged me £90 to replace it and the new one has done exactly the same as the old one did, withing weeks the clips have failed and the whole thing just lifts out, and this is the 2nd time now, so thats 3 sinks ive paid for and not one of them works, so ive got a wet cupboard underneath. the kickeboards kept moving so he fixed them, but charged me another £30. the dishwasher door keeps hitting the handle of another door, cupboard doors fall off, the cooker hood leaks from outside so when it rains i get water dripping through....its all bits and bobs but he just keeps charging but nothing is properly sorted. it wasnt very well designed really.

littlereddragon - for £5300 i got the cupboards and doors, laminate work top, cooker hood, dishwasher, oven and hob, (but ive since discovered the make is naff) but it really is only a tiny little square kitchen. 3 units down, 3 across and 3 back down again, its not great quality, not real wood or anything and laminate work top. i had to pay other workmen to come in and tile, sort lighting etc etc at extra cost.

its just not worked. ive got a joiner coming tomorrow to tell me how much to replace all the bits that need fixing. im torn between getting it fixed and selling up.

to clarify thats naff as in crap not neff!! (id have been happy with neff!)

oh dear, he does sound a bit of a nightmare. I HATE people like that - i am sorry if i was defensive but i get sick of people slating builders and tarring them with the same brush, they are not all con-men. It seems you got unlucky .

Its a shame you don't have much comeback really, he works for another firm, does this on the side (lots of builders do this, as i said DP used to)but he doesn't have a "company" as such. Also, for what you describe that you got for your money, it doesn't sound as if you got a particularly cheap job. He probably didn't pass his trade discount along to you. I hate this, my DP makes profit on his work not on the materials - so many builders actually make money on the materials too and some BIG kitchen and homeware companies provide two receipts, one for the customer minus trade discount and one for the tradesman!! I was when i discovered this - but its perfectly legal I would assume as its a national and well known company that does this. My DP only ever charges his clients the discount rate, however he does actually charge quite a lot of money for his time (£200 a day) because he does a good job.

Don't have this man in your house again, i think you are going to have to write it off - and if i were you - get a new kitchen, not a new house!! Don't let this upset you, get it sorted once and for all, and move on.

Make sure you get more than one quote in future and dont always go for the cheapest, make sure the builder lists exactly what you are getting for your money and if he is a memeber of trade organisations you at least know that he has 6 or more recent happy customers - that all you need to get into these things, DP is a member of the Federation of Master Builders, he needed 6 referees, they do follow it up too. Also look out for firms that have Master bond - that is a warranty run by the FMB, the builder pays for this and it protects both parties. WE dont because we are a fledgling company and cant stretch to that yet.

Good luck

Is it a point contacting the company he works for, with the angle that shoddy workmanship such as this put the company into disrepute?

Not that you would achieve much, but he might get into a spot of bother....

Or maybe no, Lem? (good to see you btw)

hiya quint

It probably wouldn't down to well with his company tbh. As you say though - apart from feeling vindicated, its not going to help Vicarinatutu very much

What i don't understand is why the sinks needed replacing twice, surely that must mean that they were either not fitted properly, or not the right ones for the units.

No, but would the shoddy carpenter get a fright/be spurred on to fix it if she threatens this?

Ouch. He does sound like a right pain. But I also think that's quite a lot of stuff for 5 grand! Doesn't excuse the poor fitting though.

ah well....im now completely torn between getting it fixed via a very good tried and tested joiner or selling.

D day is saturday. were going to view a house. ill see how much its going to cost to put our kitchen right but i suspect its going to be the best part of a thousand pounds tbh, still probably cheaper than moving though!

am really cos i found out today the joiner would have done my bathroom for me too. you live and learn i guess, its just painful when you had a bit of money saved only to have spent it on cowboy firms that appeared to be reputable. (apparently when you tile you tile from the bath UP! the firm that did ours tiled from the ceiling DOWN so when they got to the bath it wasnt straight....doh. thats why ive got a leak. dozy sodding bastards.) but that was 2 years ago aswell so id best leave that one and chalk it up to experience.

im going to have to have a think about what to do next. i think ive jsut got itchy feet and at the moment its any excuse to move. but probably not sensible. dunno. this house is turning into a money pit though.

Eeek! Yes, ok, only done a tiny bit of my own DIY, but of course you tile from bath up! It sounds as if you had a right pest doing the work for you - horrible situation to be in. I get so cross with this sort of thing where people are clearly taking advantage - you're paying for the expertise ffs!

But, won't it raise the value of the place to have the kitchen properly re-done? And when you think of solicitor's costs and all when you move, I'd agree it'll be less expensive to stay put. Good luck with it all hon.

you should also tile with the bath full of water as this can make it sink slightly and break the seal.

see thats what ive learnt today, would you bother to raise it with the company that did the bathroom? that was 2 years ago aswell. they also installed gas central heating which worries me somewhat...

redoing the kitchen will add nothing to the value. i checked with an estate agent today.