To be reaching near fricking hysteria because of this?

[chegirlwithbellson]

I know I am so please, please calm me down.

Sorry to do yet another AIBU but I have tried this in special needs and not really got a response (not moaning about that, I know its a bit specific).

DS2 is nearly 7. He has global learning delay & auditory processing disorder. He was neglected as a very young baby and had a pretty traumatic first few years even though he first starting living with us at 8 weeks.

We had no PR for two years so had to do as we were told by SS and this pretty much revolved around his birth mother's wants. When that calmed down DD got sick and two years later she died.

He has issues but is amazingly resiliant and I love him so so much.

Anyway - the thing that is dementing me may sound trivial.

He has persistantly taken food. It tends to be sweet things. He has gone through 2lbs of sugar in a week before we noticed what was going on. We dont have sweets around the place often but when we do he manages to get hold of whatever is in the place. It doesnt matter where we put things he will take them.

He will eat icing, cake mix, hot chocolate as well as the ordinary temptations. He will also take indegestion 'sweets' (I am pg) and eat them by the packetful. I hide them but he will climb and dig them out.

I have tried talking to him, reasoning, shouting, going mad, sanctions et. We now have a cupboard in the kitchen with a (tiny) padlock on it. I couldnt stand the thought of the build up to Christmas being spoiled by him raiding anything I bought for special.

Its like a compulsion. I understand the reasons why he does it - from the obvious - he likes sweets, to the deeper - the need to fill an emotional hole due to the trauma in his early life etc.

I have just been in to tidy his room and found yet another pile of wrappers hidden under his chest of drawers. Including yet more indegestion wrappers. I had them hidden on top of a wardrobe, in a box with a lid!

I know its sounds stupid but I am in tears here. I just do not know what to do. Obviously we wouldnt normally have the amount of stuff in the house, I dont even buy buiscuts anymore because I cannot face the stress. I need to have certain things i.e. sugar and we will sometimes have other sweet things.

I hate getting so mad at him. I worry that he is going to get hold of something dangerous one day although we are really careful with medicines. Its because he seems to have no control over what he is doing (I am not making excuses, I know he can be plain naughty).

Sorry its long and garbled.

x-posted with almost everybody .

chegirl - could you ask the after adoption people to help you talk to him about it? It just seems so hard that you are not getting more support with this, as it is such a recognised issue in children who have experienced the kind of things your DS has done.

moomaa, couldn't agree more, I distinctly remember shoving as many cornflakes as I could into my mouth even as my mum caught me doing it

He is eating the indigestion tablets because they look/taste like sweets

pica is v long shot no?

To put it in context I could have taken a lb of sugar in a week. I know it seems disgusting now.

Just a thought but a 'sweetie day' probably gives him a lovely high and then maybe he can't understand why he can't have that lovely feeling on other days - especially at 7 when patience is not a virtue!

Seriously, what about filling him up at lunch and then allowing him a biscuit, and then after dinner, a pudding - maybe the old fashioned kind that leaves him full and replete - comfort food. If he's active he'll burn it all off anyway.

I think this can be associated with being fostered or adopted, even at an early age. article discussing it I think asking your gp for a referral to CAHMS would be helpful for you. I think also talking to some post adoption specialists would also help.

I have tried being understanding and reasonable with him. It is made harder because he stuggles to understand anything slightly abstract.

I hate that everytime he does it, he feels worse about himself and that probably makes him more likely to do it.

I think its a mixture of the simple fact he wants something and is still very immature and more deeper rooted reasons.

Years ago I wouldnt have believed that something happening to a very young child could affect them in later life but TBH I have now seen too much evidence that early trauma can have a profound affect.

Neglect and trauma cause physiological changes in a developing brain so its more complex than simply 'remembering'.

Saying that, I know this sort of thing is not restricted to neglected kids.

Yes, I liked the cornflakes too because noone would notice if they went down a bit and you could put the sugar on them. I would have eaten sore throat 'sweets', we didn't have indigestion sweets.

mii, are you overweight now if you don't mind me asking?

chegirl, can you give an example of one day recently and what he has eaten/taken?

Thanks everyone.

I am going to have to push a bit harder with those involved in his care. We are just starting the statementing process so its a good time to bring it up again.

The way I look at the adoption/neglect angle is: I dont think its the reason for everything he does BUT I dont think it should ever be discounted either.

Its too important to leave out of the equation IYSWIM.

I think me and OH need to get reorganised. Things been a bit slack over the holidays. Make sure its all put away so he has a bit of help controlling his impulses.

I dont think GP will be a lot of help but there are others I can approach.

I have been in for a little chat with DS and gone over everything with him again. Maybe one day it will get through, bless him.

Just to be clear - he is allowed sweet things. He has had loads over Christmas!

Thanks all for your ideas and interest. It does help.

cirrhosis

Today I think he has taken: the sugar left in the bottom of the tin (I only keep a day's worth in it now), 3 nets of chocolate coins, approx 10 mini pepperamis, two packets of crisps, a packet of remigels, about 15-20 roses type sweets. Thats what I found in his room and noticed missing when I investigated.

I know this is from today because I clean out the room daily due to his housedust mite allergy.

We have all been home today. I didnt notice him taking any of this! I also have a chain on my bedroom door (like the ones you have on your front door) to help prevent the younger ones getting in (dont like proper locks) and chocoalate coins, remigels were in there, on top of wardrobe.

He has had 3 meals today with pudding after dinner and a few bits of christmasssy type leftovers - pringles and the odd sweet.

no not at all

with us (my brother and sister did it to) it was simply a case that our parents only ever bought 'meal' food, no snacks/biscuits/sweets v occasionally my mum would buy a mars bar and cut it up between 3 of us so we would take whatever we could that was vaguely sweet and steal it. When my sister got her first job she would spend about £10 on penny sweets and eat them in one go

FWIW I read an article about a boy once who did something similar with salty foods, and when he was prevented from stealing and ingesting vast quantities of salt he died, because he had a metabolic disorder that required him to eat it.

This was some years back, but since reading the article, I am inclined to think that it would always be worth taking a careful look at both the medical and the psychological reasons for children stealing lots of the same type of food. It would be easy to blame everything on early life trauma or social causes, but it does sound like there is an organic reason for this, as others have suggested. If not, and he is stealing sweet-tasting medicines, then I am sure professional intervention has to be necessary. This is pretty serious IMO.

How much fluid is he drinking? Is he weeing a lot?

hmmm. well to be honest my ds could sink that amount in a day no problem if it was about. No problem at all. He also leaps on the sugar as soon as I go to make a cuppa - my mum taught him to lick his finger and dip it in (bless her )

That also does sound alot of crap treats to have about. Yes it's christmas but we don't have any sweets/chocs/crisps left now. Are you buying too much, I venture to gently suggest, hoping not to offend!

On what you've said I'm not sure this is a major problem, and I think can be dealt with by having no crap about and having sweet stuff you must have about, locked in your cupboard, and by him not being deprived of sweet stuff in general.

He doesn't KNOW they are medicines though does it, he knows it is a nice sweet liquid in the bathroom that tastes yum. DH just said that he and his brother regularly took calpol because it tasted nice.

I can't see why a locked safe type box hidden away with the key on you, couldn't stop the dangerous stuff being taken straight away. Stick it in the loft if you need to

mii - glad you are not overweight. I would be if I didn't watch it and DH likes reading me the calorie values off the back of packets!

chegirl, it does sound like you are doing all the right things.

I have no advice but HEY you're pregnant! congrats

Cirrhosis - not offended at all! No we really dont tend to have a lot of stuff about normally. A lot of the stuff about now is not bought by us but by friends and family.

I suppose a normal amount for us would be: sugar, cereal bars for lunch box, hot chocolate mix (pg craving), occasional cake mix, jam and lemon curd.

I dont buy crisps or cakes and cookies generally. If I do they are eaten when I get back from supermarket with a cup of tea!
Thats about it really. He likes lots of fruit and thats freely available. He gets some sweets on a Saturday.

I think (now I can think a bit more calmly) this has come to a head due to all the stuff around due to Christmas and birthdays.

DS has impulse control problems and his major impulse seems to be around sweet food. We take all the usual precautions with medicines.

Just to clarify DS is one of 4 (soon to be 5) so do have others to compare him with.

I think its like has already been said - he may be chronologically nearly 7 but he is really much younger. Its like expecting his little brother to control his urges if a big cake was placed in front of him. He wouldnt be able to because he is only 2.

Just had a word with OH and DS1 (16) about being a bit more vigilent between us.

Thanks for your help everyone. Its good to have different perspectives.

Thanks QOD

glad you feel a bit calmer chegirl. I think you're right and christmas is certainly about the worst time of year to be trying to think this problem through! And I definitely agree that his impulsiveness will be alot to do with his developmental delay - that may be far more the real 'problem' than a possible need to hoard sweet stuff due to his early experiences.

I think it's great that you are open minded to the effects on him though, good for you for looking deeply into it and not closing your mind to possible effects on him etc.

Best of luck chegirl. Hope you get something sorted out.

Just a thought on the communication - can you maybe try some of those things (I've only read in the adoption books) like using puppets/teddies/drawings to act out or try and reflect feelings, rather than just talking. Have post adoption got any ideas?

There are always threads on AdoptionUK about the holidays and how the abundance of treats/lack of routine sends struggling children into a tailspin. Perhaps will be better when you get back into your routine.

Chegirl it was Freud who thought that being deprived food as a baby or young child would develop into an oral fixation as an adult, so not necessarily what you are going through but interesting anyway.

C&P'd from Wikipedia

An oral fixation (also oral craving) is a fixation in the oral stage of development manifested by an obsession with stimulating the mouth (oral) first described by Sigmund Freud, who thought infants are naturally and adaptively in an oral stage, but if weaned too early or too late, may fail to resolve the conflicts of this stage and develop a maladaptive oral fixation. In later life, these people may constantly "hunger" for activities involving the mouth.

A child who is not fed enough (neglected) or is fed too much (over-protected) may become orally fixated as an adult.

A child who is not fed enough (neglected) or is fed too much (over-protected) may become orally fixated as an adult. It is believed that fixation in the oral stage may have one of two effects.

If the child was underfed or neglected, he/she may become orally dependent and obsessed with achieving the oral stimulation of which he was deprived, learning to manipulate others to fulfill his needs rather than maturing to independence. This child may grow up to become fixated with giving oral sex to other people regardless of gender and sexual preferences.

The overly indulged child may resist growing up and try to return to that state of dependency through crying, acting helpless, demanding satisfaction, and being "needy."

Oral fixations are considered to contribute to over-eating, being overly talkative, smoking addictions, overindulging in sugar, chewing on straws and toothpicks, and even alcoholism (known as "oral dependent" qualities). Other symptoms include a sarcastic or "biting" personality (known as "oral sadistic" qualities). Another indicator is constant nail biting, putting fingers in the mouth as well as biting any future sexual partners they may have.

The oral stage in psychoanalysis is the term used by Sigmund Freud to describe his theory of child development during the first 21 months of life, in which an infant's pleasure centers are in the mouth. This is the first of Freud's psychosexual stages.

In Freud's theory, this is the infant's first relationship with its mother; it is a nutritive one. The duration of the oral stage depends on the society; in some, it is common for a child to be nursed by its mother for several years but in others it is much shorter.

The Freudian oral stage of development is not necessarily in conflict with evidence across the mammalian spectrum that body part sucking, including thumbsucking or the sucking of body parts of adjacent animals, is associated with maternal deprivation or premature weaning in the exterior gestational period.

Harlow's monkeys were not only head banging and regressing into autism they were also thumbsucking. The best explanation for thumbsucking is mammalian oral tactile imprinting behaviour which is not easily displaced once the sucking object is fixated.

If it was me I'd be asking my GP about a safe way to wean him off processed sugars and only allow fruits on sweet day... e.g. a Doctor approved one month detox in which you teach your son's taste buds to appreciate beautiful home made soups and oat cakes etc etc.
I know it might have deep rooted causes, but there must be a way to lessen that sugar craving!