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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not ignore racist comments, even on Christmas day?

27 replies

YanknChristmasCrackers · 25/12/2009 22:06

oh god please please save me

am trapped in PIL's stuffy living room, with stoney silence between me and FIL following a small barney over him and SIL making racist comments about some pictures in a baby book!!!!

So here's what happened. My DS (4 months) received some little baby board books, and my niece (1 year) was carrying them around and looking at them. She took one over to FIL, and he started to read to her. It was an opposite book, so on one page it had a picture of a little girl smiling, and it said 'happy'. On the opposite page it had a little boy frowning and it said 'sad'.

FIL says 'The little black girl is happy, and the little while boy is sad'. I didn't hear exactly what he said but it was something to the effect of 'the little black girl is happy because she's got on the social' and then my SIL chimed in with 'the little boy's sad because he has to stand next to her!'.

So I fix SIL with an incredulous 'I can't believe you just said that' look and say 'NOT cool'. She says 'well I've just never met any of them that I've liked' and from there on I don't know what else I said, but she slunk out of the room and didn't say goodbye to me (they were just about to leave when this all happened).

Then FIL and I got into it, and I told him what he'd said was racist. He reckons he isn't racist because he doesn't judge people on race and which point I made this face and said 'so saying the little girl is on the social because she's black isn't racist?' Also reminded him my Ex's parents and my ex are black and work very very hard and are lovely people, and while that marriage may have been crap, I won't have anyone saying racist stuff around me without addressing it.

Then he has a go at me saying 'If you're going to get upset every time something is said....' at which point I interrupted and said 'YES, I WILL be upset when racist comments are made and NO I won't let it go, because it's WRONG, and I don't want my son growing up thinking it's ok!'

There was a bit more said on both sides before we settled into a long uncomfortable silence.

Fuck. Apparently I am unreasonable for thinking you shouldn't pass your racist crap on to your grandchildren on Christmas day.

The bit I wish I'd said, which I bit my tongue, is that it's FIL's son and his lazy wife who are on the fucking dole, while my ex's parents raised two children who worked hard in school, have good jobs, and have never taken a penny from 'the social'. Fucking tosser.

OP posts:

MrsKitty · 25/12/2009 22:08

. No, YANBU.

StealthPolarBear · 25/12/2009 22:09

and said 'so saying the little girl is on the social because she's black isn't racist?'

What did he say to that?
What does your MIL think of all this?

herbietea · 25/12/2009 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

saadia · 25/12/2009 22:11

yanbu and well done for standing up to them.

ButterPie · 25/12/2009 22:13

Well done. You did right.

Horton · 25/12/2009 22:13

Good for you. Why should you have to listen to crap like that just because it's Christmas? And it seems rather against the whole spirit of Christmas, anyway, doesn't it? What about love thy neighbour etc!

echt · 25/12/2009 22:22

What Horton said; though the bit about "love thy neighbour" unfortunately reminded me of that squirm-inducing sitcom of that name.
It was racist, in effect if not intent. And still a perennial favourite as boxed set in Oz.

Rindercella · 25/12/2009 22:23

YANBU at all. I think you summed it up nicely with, "fucking tosser". Poor you having to spend Christmas with people with such odious views.

AbricotsSecs · 25/12/2009 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

VinegarTinselTits · 25/12/2009 22:23

god they sound awful, are you there overnight? can you hid some prawns in the hem of the curtain before you leave?

bunnymother · 25/12/2009 22:35

Not only are you not being unreasonable, you were very courageous. Takes a v brave person to stand up and say what they think in situations like that.

Original poster

YanknChristmasCrackers · 25/12/2009 22:46

MIL wasn't in the room for most of it, just came in at the tail end and said something about 'let's just let it go because it's Christmas' and I said something like 'it doesn't matter what day it is, I'm not letting that go'.

We are unfortunately here until Tuesday. FIL went upstairs and DH and I told MIL about it. She of course says FIL is in the wrong but agrees with DH that FIL will never be told he's wrong about anything. MIL's advice is to never argue with FIL, just to be silent to keep the peace because FIL will never back down or apologise or admit when he is wrong

It's like living in the fucking 1950s in this house.

SPB, when I said that, he basically didn't answer the question, just went on to make it my problem for being 'upset' about it.

This is really hard for me. It would upset MIL too much for us to leave, and we've nowhere to go anyway, and couldn't afford a hotel (we are in London and live 4 hours up north). The thing is, I know FIL likes me and I thought he respected me despite have quite antiquated views. From his point of view, he is 'king of the castle' and can say what he likes in his own house, and won't be told by anyone that he shouldn't.

I have a feeling they'll all watch it around me, at least for a while. It isn't fair to punish MIL by leaving. I wish I could get through to them though, it's just so fucking offensive. FIL's answer was 'well black people make fun of us' to which I made some sarcastic comment like 'yes, they ALL make fun of you, how exactly do you know this?' and he said 'black people have told me'. Fuck's sake. Nothing worse than listening to someone try to justify racist shit about a picture of a lovely CHILD. For someone who 'doesn't notice race' he certainly made sure to point out the girl was black and the boy was white!

Grrrrrrr.

OP posts:

choosyfloosy · 25/12/2009 23:13

Think it's fantastic that you didn't let it go.

I have never known how to deal with this stuff - have always gone straight from silence to resigning from jobs or whatever, without any intervening ability to talk about what's going on.

IMO you shouldn't leave. He said what he liked in his own castle, as he should, and he should be able to deal with the consequences as well, he's an adult. If he doesn't like the consequences he might consider changing his views.

jaquelinehydeThePresents · 25/12/2009 23:38

Yank I'm angry on your behalf. What a stupid, ignorant twat.

Racisim should never ever, be allowed to go unchallenged.

Well done you. Just try and relax for the next few days, and enjoy your Christmas.

TinselianAstra · 26/12/2009 01:51

YANBU at all. Well done for not ignoring it and taking the easy option. I hope he reconsiders his lazy prejudices.

StrikeUpTheBand · 26/12/2009 02:17

I can empathise. When I lost my first DS (I was very ill in pregnancy and he died in utero) my ILs came to visit me in hospital. I live in a particularly multicultural area, and the patients and families using the hospital reflect this. My MIL announced she was going down to the vending machine to get a drink and FIL actually told her not to walk around carrying her purse so openly like that (insinuating that some black or asian person might steal it from her ). I was far too weak and devastated at the time to have a big discussion with them about it, but I closed my eyes and pretended to have dropped asleep until they went home!

skidoodle · 26/12/2009 06:12

I think it is pretty sensible advice not to walk around in public places making it obvious where you keep your money. It's not racist to remind someone that a hospital might be a place to be careful about your belongings.

OP I can't believe what your fil said. It's really sad that he could find such ugliness in a child's book and appalling that he would say such racist things in front of a toddler. Children of that age understand so much

At least you didn't let it go unchallenged, although if her mum is the one who joined in the poor child doesn't have a chance

KTNoo · 26/12/2009 07:03

Slightly ironic that showing people from different races in these children's books is supposed (I assume) to make people more aware and tolerant?

Skegness · 26/12/2009 07:14

I too think you did exactly the right thing, yank. Hope the atmosphere improves soon. If your fil brings it up again I think it would be worth underlining the unacceptabilty racism in front of the grandchildren aspect, particularly. I think something like "Even if you believe that, and I can't understand how someone as lovely as you could, I absolutely cannot have you saying it in front of my son. 1) I think it is utterly wrong and 2) if he repeated such a thing at school/nursery he would be in serious trouble." might fit the bill. Is dh supporting you to the hilt? Hope so. Perhaps he too could have a word?

Mmmango · 26/12/2009 07:27

I think showing people of different races in books is about assuming that the little 'readers' may not all be white, and it's good for everyone to see themselves represented, iyswim.

OP, you did the right thing, and you didn't have any choice but to speak up - at using kids books to spout nonsense over. If he doesn't lke the ensuing arguments, he can remember not to be racist around you and particularly your dc's. That seems totally reasonable to me.

Good luck for today and the rest of your time there.

vjg13 · 26/12/2009 07:46

Well done, you did brilliantly. I have corrected my FIL when he has made homophobic comments in front of my kids and will continue to do so.

Don't leave though, just ignore him from now on!

StealthPolarBear · 26/12/2009 07:55

Good suggestion Skegness (I have written that recently as well, think Skegness must be very clever )

I have a similar situation with my mum. She bought DS a bus (ELC I think) and there is a child in it using a wheelchair (there's a ramp at the back so I think part of the fun is using that iyswim). Every time DS plays with it my mum mutters some "PC gone mad" comment. Any ideas about what to say?

Oh and I bet your FIL is like my Grandad, racist in character, but if he ever meets any of "them" likes them as much or as little as he would anyone else? i.e. the racism is about the faceless masses, once he meets individuals he's fine?

nighbynight · 26/12/2009 08:04

What a horrible situation. I guess the qu is natural British good manners/hypocrisy versus truth and justice.
Clearly, you can't let such comments pass though. Can you now, reopen a dialogue by saying "I am sorry for creating an atmosphere on Christmas day, but"..(what skegness suggests)?

nighbynight · 26/12/2009 08:06

stealth, I would just say straight out, "no, it's nice, there are loads of wheelchair lifts around and dd enjoys playing with it"

Original poster

YanknChristmasCrackers · 26/12/2009 23:07

UPDATE:

My day opened with an apology from FIL, but he doesn't have a great way with words as DH says, he said he was sorry because he 'didn't even think about the fact that you'd been married to a black fellow' Then he pointed out one of his Christmas cards that is from a 'black and white couple' and said in his job as a tally man, he's been 'abused by more of them than they have by me'. I tried to (kindly) say the issue wasn't about who I'd been married to before (the concern was racist comments in front of the children), but he sort of cut me off with a 'well I'm sorry I've said it and we'll say no more about it' so I'm cutting my losses. DH is amazed that he's apologised at all, so it's sort of a step in the right direction!

In some ways, I'm more angry about what SIL said--at least with the older generation you can put some if it down to age, but SIL is in her early 20s! I feel so sorry for her little girl, she's got no chance of growing up open-minded when her mother is telling her at age 1 it would be a bad thing to stand next to a black person! It's stuff like this that makes me glad we don't live near them any more.

Thanks everyone for your comments, it does help to know others have struggled with this and that you think I did the right thing.

OP posts:

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