Mum or Aunt...?

[ginnybag]

Not so much an Am I...? as a 'which one of them, if either...?

There's a bit of background to this, so apologies in advance.

My Great Aunty (my Grandmother's sister) is 90 years old and appropriately frail. Since a bad bout of Pneumonia in February this year, her condition has deteriorated to the point where, for various reasons, we/she doesn't feel it's safe for her to be alone and/or capable of making herself food, dressing etc.

There is some debate about how much of this is a genuine need and how much of it is 'playacting' on her part, for whatever reason but the general family consensus has been that, even if her true level of dependence is being 'over-egged' by my Great Aunt, then it's likely because she's lonely, last of her generation etc, enjoying the contact and although it has been a major pain for everyone to have a member of the fmaily with her every night etc, it's somethig we did because, other than a nursing home, which she hates the idea of, there wasn't much choice. She's done a lot for the fmaily over her life - she deserves a certain amount of payback now that's she's elderly.

However, again for reason's best known only to herself, my GA has gotten very high-handed in the last few months about exactly how these arrangements are made. She's become very dictatorial about who can/can't stay, what they can do whilst they're in her house etc. For example, my mother is now having to leave my teenage sister at home alone when she stays (or send her to us) because my GA says 'she's too loud'. Neither I or my eldest aunt are 'allowed' to bring our husbands with us, despite neither of us driving and having a 90 minute commute to reach her house from where we live, and I've already been told I can't bring my baby with me when she's born in Jan - with the inevitable upset when I explained this meant I wouldn't be staying anymore.

She has also taken to refusing to leave the house, even to go to hospital appointments or Church, though she's been a lifelong devoted Catholic.

This last (finally!) is the reason I'm posting. I had a very upset phone call yesterday from my sister. My mum and my second aunty, who both live in the same village as my GA have had a row over GA going to church on Christmas Day. My mum (not remotely catholic and generally a pain in the arse) thinks they should take her and my Aunt (church-going herself and usually far more reasonable) is standing by the view that if GA says she 'can't' any other week, why should she be able to on Christmas Day?

It is worth noting that, since my Aunt is doing dinner for the whole family, suddenly introducing a family trip to church at 10am would be far more of a pain for her than anyone else.

I would be inclined to think the whole thing is daft, except that apparently they are not speaking and both have threatened to cut off their help with GA if the other gets their way - and i'm going to walk smack in the middle of this tomorrow, have my opinion demanded and it's not what I need at 38 weeks pregnant.

I can see both sides of the argument, so I'm posting to see where on the scale everyone else falls.

Cheers for reading (if you still are!)

Not sure about your mum or aunt - imagine its just the last straw for them.

But you're great aunt is being very unreasonable. I would ring Age Concern and see what can be done in terms of help for her - be that carers coming in each day or a nursing home.

Its sad I know but it does sound that its too much for the family to deal with alone.

It sounds like a power struggle between the two sisters. I'd try not to take a side at all.
The obvious thing would to be to do what your GA wants re church on xmas day. If she wants to go then your mum could take her on her own and your aunt can prepare the food.
If they start on at you do nodding and sympathetic noises to both!

It sounds to me as if they are both very stressed and tired from looking after your GA.

Is your mum having Xmas dinner at your Aunt's despite the disagreement?

tbh I think that if your GA really wants to go, someone should take her, especially if she rarely goes out of the house. But I think it shouldn't be your Aunt's responsibility if she already has enough on her plate.

I also think you need to find a better solution to your GA's long term care. She will have to accept some compromises.

Well your GA is 90 so I do not think she is unreasonable about noise and so on. It is hard to imagine for us younger ones to realise how much harder and tireing life must be at that grand old age.

WRT going to the church,on Christmas day, I do not think it is too much to ask either , it is a very little thing to do to make someone which you said yourself did a great deal for the family over the years.

Now your mum and aunty, surely it is not that much a big deal that they should fall out over it, on Christmas of all times on the year?? Could you take your GA to church at all? this way your Aunt's planning for her guests will not be disturbed?

should read "it is a very little thing to do to make someone which you said yourself did a great deal for the family over the years happy."

Blimey, what a pain in the bum for you. Agree re. calling Age Concern for advice about what can be done to help her.

But in the short term, it does sound as if your mother and aunt have got to the end of their respective tethers with all the stress of it. Could you take each of them aside and say, right, how can we work out the best solution?

You should contact social services - they can come out, do an assessment, and put in a package of care for her which could take care of her personal care needs - getting up, washed, dressed, toileted, hot drinks, and meal prep.

If she has more than about generally £23,000 in savings she would pay for this herself but if she has below that then the state pay it.

It would free your family members up from the day to day care and leave them hopefully less at the end of their tethers and more able to arrange stuff like church etc without it becoming an issue.

Yeah, I agree the argument is stress caused.

Apologies if this wasn't clear though - part of the issue is that my mum doesn't just want to take my GA, she wants the whole family to go as well. This, apparently, is what my GA has set her heart on. Me taking her alone won't solve this issue (and would, by default, be seen as agreeing with my mum.

Thing is, I do agree with my mum in one respect - It's perfectly reasonable in my head for my GA to want/be willing to go to church on Christmas Day even if she doesn't feel up to it any other time.

But my Aunt (who takes more than her share of nights over etc as the only one not commuting/no kids) seems to have decided that it's another way for my GA to guilt-trip the family into doing what she wants. Her thoughts seem to be that it's terribly convenient that GA can't leave the house for fifteen minutes any other time but now, on Christmas Day, when she knows my Aunt has definite plans for her free time for the first time in months and in the worst weather we've seen for ages!, she suddenly decides that she can. It's an exacerbation of the feeling she's had for a while that it's all a little ott.

My GA is frail and she does need help, but it's very debateable whether she needs the level of help she currently demands and she is being unreasonable, I think, in insisting on the way it's being provided.

She is, generally, a lovely old lady. She has done one heck of a lot for the family and none of us begrudge her some help to stay in her own home. It's just the increasingly high-handed way it's being received that is getting annoying and I think my aunt is seeing this request in that light and in light of the fact that, given my GA's refusal to let either my DH or my baby be with me in a few weeks, there's going to be even more pressure on her to pick up the time I currently give.

I'm not sure what to do with that one either, tbh. I can't (and won't) leave a new born overnight that young, esp. since I'm planning to breastfeed, but my GA is adamant that she won't have her in the house.

Gah... silly-ly long posts for such a something and nothing issue!

Cirrhosis - yes. SS have done said assessment. They do send people in.... trouble is, GA just smiles, tells them everything is fine and that she doesn't need anything.... and then phones one of us an hour later to say she hasn't got a drink/needs the toilet etc....

This is part of where my Aunt's resentment is building from, I think. That and GA is increasingly refusing to attempt anything alone. She can get back and forward to the kitchen/toilet etc alone, she's not especially unsteady on her feet, but she'll refuse to do so if given the slightest chance.

Part of me sides with her - she is old, she is frail and why shouldn't she need some kind of help and support, and expect it come from family? But, part of me also sees the over-acting as well. She's a master at emotional blackmail, quite ready to turn the tears on at tyhe drop of a hat and increasingly unwilling to accomodate the other commitments we all have in our lives.

I think your Aunt has earned the right to have the christmas she wants. If that doesn't involve going to church then it is unreasonable for your Great Aunt to insist on her plans being met.

Surely the solution is for those who want to go to church to go, taking Great Aunt with them, and make sure your mum makes it clear to your aunt she can do as she chooses.

longer term, you can't be made to feel bad that you won't leave a new born and quite frankly, it's not fair for more pressure to fall on your mum and Aunt. Use this as a catalyst, the current arrangements might work fine for your Great Aunt, but not the rest of the family. Talk to Age Concern and make a plan that doesn't make your poor Aunt have to deal with this even more.

How about ringing the priest and ask if he can spare the time to bring her communion at home (some chuches have lay people who do this too).

Dear god I don't envy any of you. This stuff is so so hard.

I can only offer you my sympathy. And suggest that you leave your GA, mum and aunt to fight it out amongst themselves.

Could you contact Age Concern and tell them what your GA is up to re. refusing help from carers and then demanding it from family? They might have some pointers on dealing with difficult people or on how to approach SS about this - you wouldn't want to do anything that reduces the level of help she gets.

Not much you can do about the loo though, if she doesn't need/want to go when a carer is there...

Think you are right to say she deserves some help after years of supporting other family members, but there has to be some balance here, somewhere.

You poor thing - sounds a horrible situation.

Does your aunt have to go to church?would your GA still insist on it even if everyone else went?

I also think you should get SS out and try and have you/ your mumetc sitting there so you can say 'actually GA, x helps you with this and it takes y time' & you do need to give priority to your DC and DH.

How would you cop;e if your aunt goes away/ becomes ill etc?

Thanks guys...

I appreciate the replies. It's such a silly issue but it's the proverbial straw, so to speak and I soooo don't need a major family row about all this right now. So petty compared to some of the things people have to contend with. I should just be grateful this is the worst of my issues.

I really can see all sides of this argument. Is it wrong of me to be hoping for so much snow that the whole thing is an impossibility?

Someone will bring her communion - they do every week. I actually wish I could just ask my mum whether she dreamed this one up or whether my GA came up with alone. If it's the first, I'll have my dilemma solved, GA's take or not. If it's the second, it's a little tougher.