to think my degree is as good as anyone elses?

[SecretSlattern]

I started off in 2004 doing a NVQ 3 in Early Years Care and Education, 3 months after having DD. I qualified 9 months later, with 2 level 3 qualifications and worked for a bit in day nurseries, pre-schools and after school clubs before studying a Foundation Degree in Early Years Childcare and Education.

At the start of the second year of my FD, I discovered I was pg with DS but continued on anyway and had him 2 weeks before the end of the course. I graduated from Uni in 2008, six weeks after having DS.

I finally went back to finish the last year of my BA (hons) in Early Childhood Studies. I now have 2 DCs, one of which is constantly in and out of hospital, and have now discovered I am pg with DC3. The timing is pretty shit, but there you go. DC3 is due in May, the same month that I am due to finish my degree (although will still have to write my dissertation, which I have done before so am confident I can do it again).

However, when telling a friend of mine what I was up to (hadn't spoken in a while), she sniffed, pulled a face and basically said it wouldn't matter if I didn't finish my degree because it isn't a proper degree anyway. "What can you do with a degree in kids?" was the question I was asked.

I actually intend to go on in the future and do a PGCE in primary, specialising in early years. AIBU to think that just because my degree is "in kids" it doesn't make it any less of a degree? I still go to uni, still have to do a mahoosive amount of work, same as any other undergrad.

Whoops, I meant to address Fairycake.

Of course all degrees aren't equal. I used to be incensed while at university, some friends received the same funding as me had about 3hrs/week contact time (usually for Arts courses. I was in lectures/labs 30+ hours/week plus huge amounts of home studying/coursework for my Biology degree.

Nothing against The Arts I hasten to add - I work in The Arts now, but blimey, my degree - and the Engineering degree of my exh were very hard work.

As an arts graduate, I would definitely have preferred more contact hours. It is much easier being taught and someone summarising the information for you, than reading the hundreds of pages of source material and having to analyse it all for yourself!

A key part of an arts degree is learning to think for yourself and direct your own learning. It is harder to achieve in a different way to being constantly taught. Comparing arts degrees with things like engineering, medicine is quite futile as with the latter you are there to learn these specific things which you will later be applying directly to real life, whereas with arts subjects it's about originality and the way you think which will be useful in the future, but not in such a direct way.

RnB isn't that for practical reasons, though? dh can't do his study at home (without full lab, cad and theatresetup anyway LOL) so has 35 contact hours per week; I had 20 (excepting last year when I opted for an inde study module, similar to a dual dissertation approach) because there's no [oint attending campus and them budgeting for class time / staff etc when my study involved poring over somebodies alternative translation of the NT.

"I used to work with a girl who wanted to be a journalist. When she was in sixth form, her uncle got her work experience at the BBC and the Independent."
Yes and you can now buy work experience placements £5k - £8 apparently too. Heard someone I know's child has got a good graduate job and it's on the company his mother sits on the board of. Although in bigger organisations reverse nepotism can apply. I heard a fascinating ethics talk recently - trying to set worldwide group standards and one issue was nepotism - can you find a job on the shop floor for the father whose son has just left school or even on the graduate training programme or should you really be rejecting them because of the connection.

Anyway the point on this theme of the thread is that graduates get good jobs based on a range of factors. One is connections and work experiences, another is going to a very good university and having the madatory 2.1 or first in a decent subject, another is personality - some very clever people are so shy or useless or cannot speak properly they won't get anywhere or they have no idea how to dress or look people in the eye, another is luck and ability to work very hard. I remember making over 100 applications when I finished my studies a very long time ago. most huge successes come from people who have experienced repeated failure and often several liquidated companies. It's a Robert the Bruce Point. If at firs tyou don't succeed try try again. It's the basis of all the male dating books too - keep asking girls out and out of 100 you're bound to get some success.

I think the point about doing an English degree is that you can get by without doing too much work (in a way that you probably can?t with, say, engineering) because it?s much less structured.

What I found was that if I was fairly disciplined during the day ie heading to the library when my friends went to their lectures, I could get most of my work done 9am-5pm leaving my evenings and weekends largely free to play sport and drink.

Of course I could have done even less, but I did actually enjoy all the reading, even Ulysses (though Finnegan?s Wake is another matter). Can?t really relate to anyone who wanted to do as little reading as possible ? why choose to study English, then?

Doing a PGCE afterwards was a completely different experience ? much less intellectually stimulating but much demanding in terms of organisation and structure. All it taught me, personally, was that I didn?t like such an ordered existence so teaching wasn?t for me.

Xenia, can we add something to your summary about meaning of good?

If your aim is to rise to a senior level in early years, or access a PGCE, then a degree in EYP is as good. becuase it entirely fulfils the aim of fulfilling the requirements for the user.

In that aspect, it is no different to someone with a First from Oxford looking for a PhD placement.

Not everyone wants to be a high flyer, I don't- I was offred all that years ago and it just isn't me. My role is somewhat different albeit as vital.

I don't regard the questions I quoted as "pretentious-sounding." They're couched in terminology specific to the subject in question. How is that pretentious?

Virgin - actually, on reflection, I suppose my degree was good for me in a lot of ways. But it has not made me employable: I have bipolar disorder and I was undiagnosed for a very long time; my life was chaotic and that's reflected in my CV, and a 2:1 is not going to make up for that. Going to university precipitated a very bad breakdown for me and it took 3 years to recover - another hole in my employment history.

But my degree did change me, fundamentally, for the better; I learnt a lot; and I made a lot of very good friends. So on balance, it actually was worthwhile and I consider myself very lucky to have had the opportunity to do it.

And that's why I feel so ambivalent about the idea of a degree having a "value" - it's so hard to define and has so many possible meanings. On balance, my feeling is that if your degree makes you happy and challenges you, it is "better" than any other degree you could have chosen. I also feel that anyone who sneers at their friends' degree choice is a dick.

I think your friend is a complete cow and you are to be congratulated on nearly completing your degree. I was especially impressed that you started it when your first child was just 3m old. I don't think I could have done what you did. And your degree sounds perfect for what you want to go into.

To those that have argued that not all degrees are equal, I would probably agree. My degree at Oxford involved about four times the work of anyone at other universities. I sat 12 papers for prelims (Mods) and 10 for finals. All final exams, no coursework. I had to write 2 essays every week whereas friends at other universities (excl. Cambridge) had to write perhaps 2 or 3 a term. So I don't think all degrees are equal, no. However, if you start arguing that people should have differing levels of degree depending on how many hours they had to work, that would be ridiculous.

Where do you get 'two or three essays a term' from? I certainly had to write many more than that! Too long ago for me to remember precisely, but think essay-writing was at least a weekly activity.

'I just don't think it matters, though. I really don't. God knows my degree has got me absolutely fucking nowhere'

wel, it depends on your basic premise, i suppose. i rec'd an amazing education (various scholarships, exhibitions, top degrees from ' you know where') which opened up many doors career-wise. i gained highly coveted internships and training opportunities and earned a lot of money BUT i was really miserable throughout all of this.

i only found real happiness after i had children and this is really all i needed. i love being at home interacting with my dcs, shopping, cooking and entertaining even though my mother (as a career-minded feminist) does despair of this. my cousin (only three months older than me) did her degree at an ex-poly (only got a third) and has worked every day since. she is a pharmacist so on the face of it, would automatically be assumed to be highly intelligent & solidly educated. i don't mind being percieved as a Stepford Wife or a bimbo; i have the last laugh.

i love being a wife, housewife and mother and if dh and the dcs had their way, i would never go back to work (which does not even frighten me in the slightest). i dip my fingers in the world of work now and again (volunteering to help out at school, helping to recruit for positions within the family business). i would not want to do much more until the dcs left school. at this point, dh would probably retire (being a bit older than me) and hopefully we shall walk off into the sunset together.

tispity, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I just wish I know what it is that would fulfill me in the way that motherhood clearly fulfills you!

the thing is though - you only hear about those who got "good" degrees from "good "universities when it's led onto something good.

You don't hear about all the others with the same thing behind them who don't get the high flying jobs, loads of job offers, end up working on the checkout at Tesco (ok perhaps slightly melodramatic - but I do know of a lot of people who were completely unable to find a job in their desired field despite having the "good" degree from a "good" university behind them)

and fairy - loads of these types of question are pretentious sounding. I had one for my (level 1) course this year (coursework not exam) that was just ridiculous, what it was really asking didn't really need all the fancy smancy words in it.

Awassailinglookingforanswers - correct and correct

Awassailing - YES! EXACTLY! And actually the Tesco example is not so far from the mark: I spent a year after I graduated working as a waitress; the job I have now is so vile that I would jump at the chance to go back to catering.

My best friend hates her job and is treated like a moron by her boss. Another good friend has just got a job as a part-time management trainee; his wife (also a friend of mine) has been temping since she graduated. Another friend has been working as a nursing assistant in a psychiatric hospital since she graduated 3 years ago. Someone else I know from university is a barmaid. I could go on.
We all went to Oxford.

fairycake, I'm so sorry you've had a bad time. Bipolar is lousy, I know.

I wasn't so much suggesting that you used pretentious terminology, as having a mini-rant about the way some people do. Sorry I didn't make that very clear.

All I thought about what you said was that you can't tell anything much from questions - you need answers before you can see how difficult the topic can be. A good example that I didn't have when I posted is my brother, who has just (fingers crossed) found a counter-example to what appears to be a very simple (ie. A Level standard) question in pure maths. If he's right, it should be a nice notch on his career tally, despite the question itself having seemed quite basic to A level students for years.

LDR - ah, ok! Yes, I see exactly what you mean (and feel a bit dense for having missed it before!)

This thread has made me think about my degree and the meaning of its value in a way that I hadn't, previously. It's also made me think about this

Fairycake - but isn't philosophy just, um, very boring?

And whossa Russell Group? Not that bloody Bertrand again?

I got drummed out of Sandhurst at an early age, but that never held me back from fighting in the Crimea (mind you, might not have gone there if I'd done Geography and realised just how bloody far away it is!)

Excuse my French! (Now, that's another subject I never passed an exam in ...)

Happy Christmas!

(And, Awassailing, all joking apart - congratulations!)

thanks CD - I keep telling myself it's "only" a level 1, and "only" the OU, but then keep remembering all the SHITE that was happening at home and am really rather pleased I even managed to turn up to the exam on the day let alone pass the bloody thing

fairycake - excellent comic! I am so proud - I always thought English was the most hospitable to bullshitters, and, yea verily, it proves so.

(Ahem. I mean, 'what rubbish, I could suss someone without a degree in a second or two. Honest.')

Don't worry about misunderstanding - I wasn't being very coherent, and anyways I think we've all moved well away from the original topic, so I assume no one is biting nails in anticipating of a very clear response any more!

Captain - No! Some philosophy is boring enough to make you cry, but some of it is really, really interesting: meta ethics, for instance, is fascinating (eg. what is a person?); philosophy of politics is great (eg. what is the justification for political obligation?); philosophy of mind is very stimulating (eg. are you your brain?) but also a bit of a nightmare because you have to wade through hundreds of pages of Daniel Dennett.

The Russell Group is just a group of universities with a better-than-average reputation for research & teaching.

And Awassailing, stop with the "only" already.

ahh but you see it is an "only" - you see I need 360 points for my degree.......this course was a Level 1 (so relatively "easy") and the rest have to be level 2 and 3 courses...........and just looking at the first 2 units of my course that I start in Feb is giving me the shits