to think that a. a school should care if a child refuses to go, and b. to try to do something about it?

[GloriaInEccentrica]

I'm a bit cross so this may contain some swearing.

Fuckingbastardtwats.

5 times this term I have spoken to them.

FIVE!

stupidfuckingshitheadtwat 'family liason' nicey nice, 'oh dear, what a shame' person has promised me FIVE times that she'll 'have a word' and 'get her mentor' to 'have a chat' with DD.

Nothing.

This morning after 2 hours of screaming, shouting, 1 bathroom door broken and hanging off it's hings, 1 shower door broken and hanging off, I drive her to the sodding fucking place.

get home.

Phone stupidfuckingshite liason person AGAIN. her response?

'well i've set the wheels in motion, i'll pop along and see if shes alright'

bollocks to her. what about me? I have bruises on my arms and think i',m having a breakdown. and an ulcer.

they obviously don't give a shit whether she goes or not.

If i wasn't so pissed off with it all and needing a break from the incessant shouting, whining, crying, hitting, breaking i'd let her sodding stay home.

oh and so annoyed for you that the school don't seem to care. If you let her stay at home they'd be all over you. (Sorry, no ideas how to make them see this as important)

she won't be getting pocket money for a long time.
nor computer time.
nor sweets.

she knows it isn't acceptable, nor normal. but when in a tizz can't comtrol it. (again- hoping cahms might help with this)

am just off to try to fix the door.

That's real progress then. Do her friends call round for her?

Ime (and my e is a good few years back) schools can be far too blase about children attending and even when they do take an interest tend to see it as a problem to be sorted by parents/education welfare.

Fake I agree with you that she needs somehow to be shown that this can't continue

Perhaps alongside the punitive which I guess has to be there for damaging the house/hurting her mum, there could be targets - if you don't shout you will earn this or that...building up from very easily acheivable stuff. Perhaps that's where the liaison officer could come in - backing up what you're doing at home by arranging for someone to check on her 'earnings' and to show that school a) know about it and b) care about it

ah. that's an idea. i may well suggest it. have been needing some sort of link.

I think it is worth suggesting if you fancy it. Thing is, it's easy for the school to do - ask them to do too much and you won't get it because they are so stretched/have 30 kids/are on rails anyways....but 2 minutes spent talking to her and checking on her progress is certainly not too much for them to provide imo. I would say a perfect role either for her form tutor or the link worker....what they're there for when it comes down to it

I do think she needs positive targets. Yes lose priveleges for awful behaviour but if it's JUST that, what has she to gain by being good? She needs to be able to see a tangible result for the good behaviour imo. And you can spring it on her to show her how good it feels. For instance if she just shouts instead of screams, well that's still not good but it gives you a chance to say "I noticed you were 5% calmer today, so I'm going to (insert whatever you think she earns)".....

Good luck

Gloria - is your dd's school attendance below 75%? That appears to be the point at which schools become officially concerned and services are offered. I dont see why you couldnt ask for her to be referred to an Educational social worker, even if it hasnt fallen below 75% as the problem seems to be getting worse.

I would write to the school explaining your situation and the efforts you are making to ensure she gets to school, and ask what help they can offer.

Its always useful to a writen record, and they are less likely to fob you off in a writen reply than in a telephone conversation.

Good luck

I am in pretty well the same situation as you Gloria; I know exactly how you feel. Only difference being that dd has a medical condition underlying and this is why she is so frightened. Also suspect that there may be something else wrong with her,as she just wants to sleep all the time- still waiting for blood tests.

But she gets hysterical at the thought of going in when she can't cope. There is nothing you can punish a child with if they are more frightened of going to school than of losing any privileges. Dd only wants to sleep- I can remove privileges right left and centre; she doesn't care because she isn't interested in anything except not having to get up. When someone is trying to cut their wrists to get out of going to school, stopping pocket money is like putting a sticking plaster on a heart attack; it might make you feel you're doing something, but it's unlikely to cure anything.

The only difference is that her school are very supportive; she has access to the school counsellor and to pastoral support, and CAHMS have agreed to come out early to see her (normal waiting time would be a couple of months). And having support makes a huge difference.

Sorry for hijack. Sending good vibes.

Gloria, you're right; of course the school should both care and do something to support a school refuser!

It's good that your daughter is seeing someone at CAMHS but there are plenty of other things the school could do if they wanted to.

Without meaning to tar all 'marvellous' schools with the same brush I do think that some of these schools may be 'marvellous' in OFSTED-speak but not necessarily that brilliant/imaginative when it comes to children who don't find school quite so straightforward. I spent 6+ years teaching at a London primary school where we'd bend over backwards to support the parents/families of school-refusers... we'd arrange different timetables/start times to allow them to avoid trigger situations e.g. assemblies, offer part-time schooling (and provide work to be done at home), make arrangements for the child to come to school but not attend lessons (for a limited time!) and perhaps spend the day photocopying/sorting the library/shredding things/doing something else non-confrontational, we'd collect the children from home/arrange to meet them en route, would call/text parents to let them know when their child had arrived, let the child call the parent once they'd stayed in a full session etc. etc. We'd do whatever we could to help the child make it to school and eventually participate in school life.

Your daughter sounds as though she would benefit from some anger-management input (offered through behaviour support as opposed to CAMHS) tied into a sanctions system that could be used at home and school. Some secondary schools are able to offer incentive systems tied in with local businesses e.g. cinema vouchers etc.

The SENCo or lead behaviour teacher at her school should be working with you to set up something (potentially a Pastoral Support Plan aka PSP) that can be used by both settings and by all adults who she spends time with - it could be e-mail based so that you can e-mail her form tutor to say how successful/otherwise each morning departure has been but may also contain specific 'if and then' statements e.g. "If X arrives at school by 0845 she can help the office staff with Y". Likewise the form tutor could e-mail you back to let you know how the day's gone and you could reward her accordingly with computer time/other agreed reward.

Gloria- I feel so sorry for your situation. I have a dd with OCD whose behaviour at times can be similar to your dds, but mine can self harm. We are learning to cope with it but god is it hard. I have days when I just wish she'd disappear, as she disrupts the house so much. But then, when I see her at bedtime, I realise she's such a mixed up girl, then I feel a bitch for thinking horrible thoughts.
One of her friends is a refuser- has done since primary and they are getting some cbt through CAMHS.

I really hope things get better- thank god for MN eh, or we'd all be in the funny farm

?she knows it isn't acceptable, nor normal. but when in a tizz can't comtrol it. (again- hoping cahms might help with this)?

Gloria, is it possible she has depression? I know it?s an unusual diagnosis in children of her age, but that?s why it?s so often overlooked and depression can manifest itself in this way, ie lashing out even when she knows it?s wrong.

Just a thought, might be worth mentioning to CAMHS next time you speak to/see them.

Sorry if not appropriate.

I have an angry school refuser but not as angry as yours. Awful abusive tantrums.

Anyway I have been giving him B6. It helps.

your post made me wince. my son was at an ofsted rated "outstanding" church school, supposdely caring, and they did absolutely nothing for him when he was miserable, crying every day, bullied, refusing to go to school etc. aged five he was telling me he wanted to kill himself, and describing ways he might to it.
a classmate of his who had aspergers was told to go howl in the loos when he was sad because the teacher could not deal with him.
.
have you considered complaining to the governors? that might get things moving.
im so sorry for you xxx

Thanks. Have been at work. Thank god for MN eh? let off steam at the moment when needed. i think i'd probably explode otherwise.
spoke to DD on the phone earlier from work - she was very subdued. think she surprised even herself. apparantly her tutor spoke to her today and is aranging a time to talk properly. I appreciate the chool day is packed full but if this isn't by the end of the week i may be a bit cross with them. also will be arranging to see the cahms people without DD being there after christmas.