to put a note in dds homework pointing out the teachers errors

[brook1]

My dd did some comprehension homework last week and brought it home on Friday after it had been marked by the teacher (or possibly ta).

One of the answers my daughter put to her question was "they would have been fed to the sharcks".

The teacher has crossed out fed and replaced it with feed and has crossed out the "c" from "sharcks" and replaced it with an "e" so it now reads "they would have been feed to the shareks".

We are not allowed to speak to the teachers in the mornings about any issues unless they are urgent so we have to make an appointment. I didnt think it was worthy of wasting an appointment but I do feel like it needs pointing out.

DH thinks I will look stroppy if I put a note in.

AIBU.

Moondog, I agree that there need to be a lot of changes to the education system. This is one reason I am getting out of teaching- it needs a complete overhaul. However I will never believe that focusing on children's errors helps them to learn. I believe there should be far more thought and speech before moving onto writing sentences, but the curriculum demands it and you do have to mark to different criteria.

'As for this research corrie' Why are you using that tone? And why do you keep asking about my job? I'm a research assistant, as I stated earlier. Of course I am not always doing my own research. I have done projects of my own and as a team. At the moment I am not collecting data I am developing a questionnaire. Yes you have a higher qualification than me. Well done. It doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about or cannot have an opinion.
Your tone is very confrontational tbh!

Oh and you didn't answer my question as to whether you appreciated that your stance on dyslexia is contentious and would be offensive to a lot of people.

What tone?
I want to ascertain whether it is your work or work you are carrying out for someone else.It is important to know these things.
Ultimately, opinion is irrelevant. The data tell the tale.

Do I appreciate that my stance is contentious? Well of course.There is an entire industry that has grown up around the idea of dyslexia, one on which a lot of people have made thier money and repuations 9see Centre for Policy Studies' website for excellent paper on the Special Needs 'industry' which is now completely out of control.

Undoubtedly there are some people with 'word blindness', just as there are some fat people with hormonal problems (as opposed to problems keeping away from the biscuit barrel).

I know one or two, one being a subject of my research who has uterly baffled me. Stroke patients too often lose the ability to read or retain ability to read words/non words.(It's a whole fascinating subsection.)

There aint many though and as I keep on saying, most of the people who can't read are in the situation they are in because of poor teaching and not because of some innate unfixable 'dyslexia'.

And neither do I believe that focussing on errors is the best way to learn.It is the worst way to learn.

My entire theoretical background and career and research is based on use of positive reinforcement.

The 'What do you have? An MSc? A PhD? Please let us know.' tone. I could have read a load of books on the subject in my own time and still be able to talk about it.
The fact is I have interviewed a lot of people with dyslexia (or not as you would say) and they nearly all recalled traumatic memories of being humiliated at school for being picked on for bad spelling etc. I haven't even referred to data driven findings apart from this, so I don't know why you're asking me about my data. Which data of mine do you want to know about?

I think handing back a piece of work covered in 'you have done this wrong' marking is focusing on errors, particularly when they've managed to get something good across in the content. We all listen to criticism more than any other comment. You could produce something that everyone loves but the 1 comment you'll remember is the critical one. You could go blue in the face telling a child how their message was great but they'd remember the spellings. Imagine if you taught a child struggling with literacy, lacking confidence who had put a lot of effort into a piece of work that was littered with spelling mistakes due to him/her attempting some difficult words (and some not so difficult words). They proudly present it to you. How, using your expert knowledge, would you mark that?

We teach Direct Instruction - secondary school.

There are 2 issues here.
1, teaching methods involving phonics, overlearning, systematic breakdown of words, etc. I think we all agree this is what it is needed. It is also what is being used in school more and more and this term systematic spelling strategies have been introduced- look at the new support for spelling initiative. These things don't happen over night but they are going in the right direction.

1. Developing the self-esteem and confidence of each child in terms of their ability. Of course non-correction across the board is unhelpful. I so not advocate telling a child all their work is fabulous, ever, they always need to be extended and challenged. (I also think it is a travesty when children are given work that is too hard and meaning they need someone sat by them trying to help them struggle through.) I am talking about specific examples of making a piece of work as described above. I do not think it is always necessary to point out all spelling mistakes, at times when this will detract from a different achievement a child might have made. OK? I didn't comment on the nephews it is a very specific example and I could tell you about my 15 year old cousin who is extrememly literate. So how would you mark the work in the example I gave in my last post?

"NO NO No! Don't do it it would be incredibly rude !!"

Erm, this woman is paid to teach her daughter correct spelling and grammar. It's not rude to point out that a teacher has corrected an error with another error.

One teacher at my school "corrected" something I had spelled correctly with an error. I knew I had spelt it correctly and being the pedantic little madam I was I went in with the dictionary the next day and pointed it out.

If she can't spell then she shouldn't be teaching English. The attitude of "it's only spelling, it doesn't matter" I find extraordinary; you wouldn't expect a maths teacher to correct a sum wrongly would you ?

"So if we were writing about sharks, I'd correct 'sharek' but maybe turn a blind eye to 'ferrotius' or 'terrorfying', in a student with weak spelling skills trying to use more interesting vocabulary. The last thing I'd want is for the child to think 'right, I'll stick to words I know I can spell'."

How on earth does that help anyone learn ?

If a child is poor at spelling then of course extra support is considered needed! When wouldn't it be? How is being poor at spelling a specific example? I'm talking about what happens day in day out.

When I've said "we can work on spellings later" that relates to the logistics of teaching 30 children at once and it not being possible to support them individually in finding strategies to spell every word correctly. It is simply not possible and I say it to encourage them to try.

And if you'd read my posts, you would have seen that I was talking about children with SEN, e.g. when I said:

I wonder if you'd feel the same about correcting every single spelling if your child have literacy difficulties and lacked confidence in themselves. If the content of their work was inspired yet covered in red pen pointing out their mistakes?

and

I have researched dyslexia for a long time. I have interviewed several dyslexic children and adults about their experiences. The majority of them have been seriously emotionally damaged by negative experienced at school where they've been made to feel they've got it wrong all the time. Marking spellings as wrong for every single piece of work DOES NOT help children learn to spell. Other pro-active systematic strategies using phonology, rhyme and mnemonics are used alongside the curriculum to support children who need extra support.

If they haven't been diagnosed with dyslexia or don't have it why do you think that means they wouldn't be affected in the same way in terms of confidence and the specialist support needed? Methods used by dyslexia teachers are useful for all literacy difficulties and emergent readers/writers.

Justaboutisfatandtired - But in a one hour history lesson, for example, would you rather your child focused on the poor spelling and copied out words 5 times, or learnt something historical? Or would you prefer the child to do it at home for homework? Or miss break?

Corrie,I think you are being deilberately obtuse.
We all broadly agree that phonics based spelling is an evidence based approach to teaching reading and writing. We agree that children should not be belittled and punished for making mistakes which are probably due to poor teaching.

I am sorry if you feel I am belittling you. I do not intend to and neither do I think I know it all. I only have an MSc myself. However it is important not to sell yourself as someone who is a 'researcher'.

You have had informal chats/interveiws with people about their expeirnces.You have helped other people with their research. It's a completely different thing.

Diane McGuinnness is the woman who really knows her stuff in this filed.I am sure you are familiar with her work.

The issue remains as to how staff can be freed to undertake the painstaking repetitive practice that some children need to be able to master these skills and to do so in a way that is reinforcing and builds confidence and a sense of success.

This is the focus of my research and interest. Such a topic already exists. It is called Headsprout and is the culmination of many years of painstaking research and millions of dollars. What makes it unique is that as an online programme, it is dynamic and responds to the child's areas of need. If a child masters something quickly, thry move on fast.If they need more practice, it automatically downloads more practice until mastery is achieved.

It is not designed for use with kids with SN but my research involves assessing whether it can be adapted for use with children with quite severe SN (initial results are promising).

I must stree that I do not work for this company.I am a good old public sector worker.

What is really exciting about it is that the child can work largely unsupervised, freeing staff. Additionally it costs less than £2 for 20-30 minutes of state of the art instruction. That's a hell of a lot cheaper than the time of a teacher or an assistant.

It can also be done anywhere, being online.

I have used it myself as a parent and it has made a phenomenal difference. Additionally, every child I have ever used it has loved it and blossomed in confidence and revelled in the joy of learning.

That's what we all want,I am sure everyone will agree.

children aren't identified as weak or struggling, because to be weak or struggling is perceived as normal

Quite

Don't bother brook 1. I often dealt with parents unhappy about homework issues and always wondered how they were going to deal with real problems as the children got older if they wanted to make a hooha about such a minor issue. I always thought one of the greatest influences on a child's progress was the relationship between parents and teacher. If child hears you slagging off teacher it will really have a detrimental effect on their feelings about their teacher and that may well affect their motivation and confidence. If you can forgive teacher you will be bolstering child's confidence in that person. Of course if they make continual errors you may need to take it further but hold off if it's a one off at a very busy time of year.

My DH (a primary school teacher) once used the comments slip for a report to point out mistakes in the report. When I collected the children the next day the teacher gave me a new copy of the report with all the mistakes corrected...

moondog, I have said from he beginniing I am a research assistant and have not 'sold' myself as anything, I have just stated that my job is researching in dyslexia, which it is. Through my work I have managed to glean just a smidgen of knowledge and understanding about dyslexia- can you not accept that?
Why does not conducting my own research not count in your view?
Many people conduct reserach as a team and there are many ways to learn something. In fact I'm not focusing on one thing in particular has given me a good broad overview. Plus the findings from my interviews with adults have been published in a paper about best practice, they were not just 'informal chats'. I can email you the full title if you like but I don't want to state it here.

I have also had first hand experience of teaching all primary age groups as a classroom teacher in all areas of the city where I live by doing supply. This has also given me some knowledge and experience.

You research sounds great! I just don't see why you have to be the way you are being about what I do and dismiss the concerns I have about emotional well-being in education.

How am I being obtuse? I'm simply reiterating what I have said from the beginning.

justabout noone's going to argue that your nephews' lack of literacy skills should have been picked up. Parents frequently take schools to court because of this.

Exactly right here, Justabout

'But we can't assume that children's progress is dependent on having well-educated parents who are eloquent and capable of fighting their child's corner productively. That's why intervention matters more in low socio-economic settings, because they won't necessarily be getting the educated support at home.'

Project Followthrough was a prime example of this and you know what? It terrified the powers that be that black inner city kids from shit homes were steaming ahead of the all American white middle class gang, so it was all shelved. Never forget, many peopel have a vested interest in creating and maintaining an underclass.

Corrie, you are like a do with a bone. Let it go eh? I don't mean to be rude or personal (and as I said,I am sorry if you feel I am coming across like this.) You sound like a committed passionate person.
What this field needs though is evidence based practice, not personal opinion and vague theories. (Although obviously MN a place for peopel to expound thier views.)

I really recommend you read the first book I linked to (it's not a heavy read).It absolutely blew me away and has had an astounding effect on me.

Moondog;

will order the book you linked...

thanks