to be very annoyed with dd's teacher and write a letter to the headmaster?

[RantApplause]

I don't know where to start really. I'm annoyed at the teacher about an incident at school yesterday but I feel a little background is necessary. DD had a lovely teacher last year but has been landed with a teacher this year who makes even me nervous. She's almost at retirement, very oldworld approach to teaching and very scary, stern and shouty.

At the start of the year all the parents where in shock with the change, the cross attitude towards the children and the ignorance towards concerned parents (huge increase in homework, children not wanting to go to school, one bedwetting because they were so afraid. Everyone talked about approaching the teacher but the general thoughts of parents who had children in her class the year before was 'bite your tongue, nothing will be done about her', such is her standing with the board of management (I think they're scared shitless of her tbh)

So we all decided to say nothing officially but mention at the PTM that maybe there was a little bit too much homework and that really there was no point in us trying to struggle through 3 hours of homework with tired, frustrated 8 and 9 year olds who were long passed the point of retention when the homework was finally finished. She stood her ground but we did notice a reduction and things have settled.

Thing is she's still a very stern woman and most of the children are terrified of her.

So to dd and yesterdays incident - dd's copy books have, one by one, gone missing over the last week in school. Teacher questioned her about it when she noticed dd had done work in the wrong copy (the only one she had left) but because dd was afraid to tell her that she didn't know she lied and said she left it at home. According to dd she said this at least twice more when asked but she never told me. Yesterday she was asked to write down words from the board and she did so but in the wrong copy (again!) and teacher went into a rant in the class. She told dd that she would rip the page from her copy and warned her, with gritted teeth, that she better have the right copy the next day before slamming it back down on the table. She gave her a spare piece of paper and made her write all the words again when the rest of the class was at lunch. DD began crying and had the added humiliation of all her pals looking at her.

DD was wrong to lie but in her defence she once told the teacher that she was feeling unwell and the reply was a sarcastic 'what do you want me to do about it?' so she has been afraid to tell her that her copies are going missing in school (theft?) and if 'I don't know' is the answer to any question it's a trip to the heads office so she thought it best to lie.

Now I know dd can be a handfull and is not always the most attentive in class. She can be slow to do classwork and I know this can be frustrating for a teacher but I'm horrified that the teacher made her feel so frightened. I would back the teacher all the way with a justifed punishment, lines, stay in at lunch, stand at the back of the class but to verbally abuse and threaten her was a step too far in my book.

Finally I'm getting to the AIBU bit..... I feel the teacher was well out of order and I want to write to the head and ask for a meeting to discuss what I believe was unacceptable verbal abuse and intimidation. If dd was a preschooler I would expect that the primary caregiver in my absence would make her feel safe and secure and build on her confidence not knock it and humiliate her but still have the ability to stick to the rules and if necessary chastise in an appropriate manner. I don't feel that my expectations should change now that dd is schoolgoing. She should be in an environment, with clear boundaries and consequences, that she feels safe in, not terrified. I think learning is easier in a happy atmosphere and I would like to know that if dd has any trouble she can approach, with confidence, a trusted adult but she wouldn't go to school today because she was afraid, she won't speak up when she needs help with schoolwork for fear of being barked at and she says 'she can't stand it anymore' - a nine year old!

I'm sorry for the long rant and thank you very much for reading all of it.

I'm fully prepared to be told I ABU if that's your honest opinion.

Thanks

I would speak to the teacher first. Explain that dd is scared of her and that is why she didn't tell the truth about her book.

God, poor girl! I think you definitely need to say something - writing to the head is a good idea, and make sure you copy the governors in as well.

You need to be clear and objective in your letter, since I suppose you have no way of confirming the facts (not that I think your DD is being untruthful for a second). Not sure how much of the background you ought to include ie about the teacher's reputation - I suspect you would be better to keep to the current facts about this event. You put it very well above in the bit about safe environment - that's exactly right.

Poor little thing, glad she's got you to stick up for her. It makes you wonder why some people want to become teachers in the first place, if they seem to hate kids so much!

Good luck

On a practical note, have you written a note or spoken directly to the teacher about the missing copy books and tell her dc was too frightened to say anything to her?

If I knew the teacher was strict and intimidating and dc unlikely to say anything I would intercede since it would only be a matter of time before it was made an issue.

I take it this is a private school? So you're paying good money for your DD to be made to feel frightened? In your position I'd just move her, and make damn sure everyone knows exactly why. YANBU, by the way.

Agree with Cornsilk. Make an appointment to see the teacher, explain that your DD is scared of her and that she was very upset with the way that she spoke to her - and detail what your DD said. If she dismisses your concerns, then tell her that you're still not happy and that you'll be making an appointment to see the head.

From what you describe, it sounds as if this teacher really is beyond the pale - and I speak as a parent of 3 children who believes very strongly in a firm approach by teachers! No-one, be it a child or an adult, learns anything or achieves their full potential in that type of environment.

Thanks all for replying. I had first thought it best to chat to the teacher because dd did lie repeatedly and I can't really blame her for getting annoyed with dd after days of telling to to bring her copies into school but now I'm so worked up about it I'm not sure I could talk to her without getting very upset myself. I'm afraid I might be being a little 'precious' about the whole thing though which is why I'm happy to get honest opinions and advice from the MN jury.

I feel better about the letter because I know I can get my concerns across, explain why dd lied and express my view on the manner in which she dealt with the situation without loosing my train of thought.

It's a public school btw.

It's taken me an age to write this so I appologise if there are a few other messages or points I don't reference this time.

Speak to the teacher first and as someone has already said tell her your dd is scared of her. Go to the Head, if you are unhappy with her response.

If you can speak to her it will be better than writing a letter as you can then gauge her response for yourself and agree what's to be done. Won't hurt her to hear from the horses mouth that dd too scared to say her books have steadily gone missing and has instead taken the punishment. It's immaterial it's are a public school, they are ultimately accountable to you, the parent & fee payer, so please don't be intimidated. If you don't like her response see the headteacher.

Thanks. The thing is we're not allowed to speak to teachers without first clearing it with the head but we can write a note to the teacher in the homework journal so maybe, as suggested earlier, I could write a short note explaining why dd lied and ask for the situation to be monitored i.e a daily check made on dd's copies especially after the lunch break which is when she has noticed they are missing.

If I write the note should I just give an explanation and leave it there or should I say I would have preferred she gave a punishment rather than scare and humiliate her?

Please do complain.

I had a teacher like this when I was 8 or 9. It sounds dramatic but she totally changed me, in a bad way. I was confident and bubbly and loved school before I went into her class. She was really cruel and horrible. Did things like fell out with the head so came and tore up my art work (and other kids), made me clean up the mess another child ahd made etc etc and lots of shouting and just lots of making me aware that I was not clever or bright or anything in her opinion and she didnt like me. When I was taken into a class once a week for the brightest kids the other teachers had to rally round and TELL her I was coming and she said I was too stupid! I was a nervous wreck in her class and it took me years to get back ot enjoying school.

Sorry I know Ive rambled but I hate the 'oh she's just old fashioned and will never change' line of defence because actually there's a difference between being old fashioned and being a bully.

You can't speak to the teacher without first clearing it with the head? Then I would go straight to the head - I'd phone the school in the morning and ask for a meeting or phone call as soon as possible.

Is this UK state school?

So she didn't go into school today atall, or she just didn't want to go?

I think you and other concerned parents should as a matter of urgency write a letter outlining your concerns to the Board of Governors and cc the Head. put down what you said about dc feeling safe and secure and the teacher being "locus parentus".
Perhaps this teacher is near retirement and "old school", but dc should not be afraid to ask for help or to go to school. If you dont complain, the situation will not change, and it is a long time till summer for your little girl and other dc.
If my dc were this upset re a teacher, I would ask for them to be moved to another class, and if this not possible, keep them at home, till the situation had been satisfactually resolved. Good Luck.

I would say exactly what you have put here, explain and say you would have preferred she gave a punishment rather than scare and humiliate her. It is her job to set clear boundaries and consequences, not to humiliate.

Everything about this post makes me wonder whether we're talking about the UK system here.
And "not allowed to speak to the teacher?" WTF?
I'd be considering a switch of schools, I think, unless you can get soem reassurance from the Head p.d.q

WFBT that's awful, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. dd used to love school. If we ever had to take her out for family reasons she would kick up a fuss because she was going to miss, in her words - 'the fun'. She was keeping up with class and the final assessment was a good one. Now she's struggling and has difficulty with a lot of the stuff she has for homework because she's afraid to ask if she doesn't understand in class.

dd has told me she is cross with everyone and I know from speaking with other parents that it's not just dd who is having trouble but I'm now beginning to worry that dd has been deemed the 'stupid' one in the class and is being picked on considerably more. There have been other incidents which would indicate this but I never said anything.

I think I'll write a short note and just say it like it is - that dd is afraid of her and that's why she lied. I'll say that the copies have gone missing in school and that I've advised dd to tell her if it happens again with the replacement copies. Maybe say that I've also advised dd to tell me of anything that upsets her in school and hopefully avoid a simular situation arising again.

?

Sorry, didn't see those latest posts before posting my last. I'm in Ireland and this is the only school that I know of with this system. We moved house 20months ago and in the last school we could talk to the teacher any time as long as it didn't interfere with class. I know that a couple years ago a parent approached the same teacher about something they were unhappy about and she refused to talk to her. Since then apparently you must go to the head first. I should say this is what I've been told and not something I know for sure.

be back in a minute, didn't read all the post properly just wanted to clear that up first as I saw it was queried by a couple of you.

I know you have to go to the head first because it's in the school rules printed in the homework journal but I'm not sure if the reason is the parent a couple of years ago.

She didn't go to school today but only because I didn't know of any of this until very late yesterday evening and I couldn't get new copies, a letter or note organised and I was working today so I couldn't go into the school to see the head. I'm working tomorrow and can't get out of it but I need to send her back with some explanation or she'll get sent to the head for having no note for absence.

The other parents won't do anything. They all talk about how awful she is but when I rang around a few of them last night I felt like I was being nudged forward like a lamb to the slaughter - all telling me to say something and make a big deal out of it but I think it was to see what would happen me, like a scapegoating.

I don't want to move her because it's a rural area and the next nearest school is quite a distance but besides that, dd has made friends which was a bit of a struggle initially as she joined the class med-term and I don't want to unsettle her now because of a teacher.

BTW thank you all very much for replying. I know I havn't referenced you all individually because I'm so slow at typing and trying to go up and down the page is taking me forever but I really am grateful to all of you for taking the time to advise me.

That is really crap! Fancy having to go through the Head to speak to the teacher.

I knew you were in Ireland from your first post. Nobody in UK says "copy books". All rings horribly true to me I'm afraid, there are some cultural differences from the UK wrt the Irish system.
I don't think YABU at all, and I think you need to speak to the head ASAP and arrange a three-way meeting with the teacher and head together so you can get to the bottom of it - including what is happening to your DD's copy books. I would be very clear with the head that your DD is in danger of developing a dislike of school because of recent events and that you all need to work together to redeem the situation.

If you can't get to see the head because you're working couldn't you phone him/her? Pretty much all of my communication with ds's teacher this term has been done by phone.You can discuss what your concerns are, the head can then discuss with the teacher and you can arrange to meet head and teacher when convenient. At least that way things don't drift on unresolved.

I assume the missing books aren't ones your dd would bring home. I always check ds's reading folder every evening to see what he has for homework and I know if anything is missing the same day.

LadyGlen. Funny how something like that can be spotted in text, well done and thanks.

I wanted to ring the school but I work in the emergency services (have been here before under different names, scardypants and others, but this is my christmas one)so I didn't want to ring and be in the middle of the whole discussion and have to cut him off at short notice. Even on our lunchbreak we have to be ready to respond to an emergency call so I didn't have a time when I knew for sure I could talk to him uninterrupted. Also he's a teaching head so he has class all day and generally you have to request a meeting with him if you need to talk to him about anything for any length of time.

The children have really oldfashioned desks with a space underneath them to keep their books. They bring home the ones they need for homework and the rest are left in school but dd has said most of them have gone missing around lunchtime. She said when the children need to use the bathroom during lunch they are given permission to use the one beside the classroom which is unattended at lunchtime so maybe it's happening then.

Again, thanks to everyone. I'm going to write a short note for tomorrow but I'll request a meeting so it can all be ironed out properly. Must get to bed for work in the morning but I'll come back on tomorrow and let you know how dd got on.

Nightnight

Could you suggest to the head that this shitbag of a teacher is so old that maybe she's developing dementia and that's why she's so horrible and unreasonable?

Thinking about you and your DD - how did it go with the school?

SolidG. I wish I could!

Thanks Paolo. Sorry it's taken me so long to come back. I wrote the note and said it straight out that dd said she scared her and that she was absent because she was too distressed to go back to school.

Now I feel very paranoid - what do you think of this? I have to give the benefit of the doubt but I also have to consider that dd made have made a huge error...She gave teacher the note first thing that morning. teacher said nothing and got on with class and then the children went to their first break. When they returned teacher called her up to the front and asked why her mother was writing a note saying all copies had one by one gone missing when in actual fact they were all right there infront of her on the 'copy desk'

DD was dumbfounded and replied she had no idea how they got there. Teacher said no more about it but told her to bring home all her new copies and tell me that there was no need for them as all her original ones were in school and told her to go back to her desk and said 'good girl' (something she never says - she never praises dd)

DD said the note must have worked because teacher has been very nice to her since then.

What I don't understand is why the teacher never told her over the last couple of weeks that her copies where on that desk and gave out to her loads of times about them being missing. Is it taking it a step too far to think that she may have enjoyed having something to rant about? I don't know but I asked for a meeting next week to discuss that matter and I also said that I wished to discuss other matters as I was very concerned dd had began to dislike school this year (someone suggested something simular in an earlier post - thanks)

Ultimately I may have to accept that dd just didn't make an effort to find the copies in class and just assumed someone had taken them but the real issue for me is that she frightened dd (she witnessed another teacher slap a child on the hand and thought maybe her teacher would slap her), made her cry and humiliated her so that will be mostly what I hope to address in the meeting.

I'll post back later in the week and let you know how it goes. Thanks again for all your posts.