To be depressed by ELC's dressing up selection for girls?

[somethinganything]

Been flicking through the catalogue today - the boys are dressed as doctors, firemen, pirates, cowboys, spiderman, policemen, racing drivers. And the girls are all fairies and princesses plus a token nurse.

I just loathe all that disney princess nonsense - DD is just under two and none of that crap has registered but I know it's just a matter of time before she's clobbered by the pink marketing machine and pestering me for snow fairy tutus and pretend ironing boards.

To be fair, I probably am taking it all a bit seriously. But I'm sooo sick of being told by people "isn't it funny how little girls just love all pinks things and dressing up in sparkly dresses" - I'm sure there's an element of truth in it but for the most part, isn't it just because they're bombarded with it from such an early age.

So, what's the verdict, am IBU?

My DD had no interest in pink until she started nursery & "learnt" to like it.

As well as skirts, cooking, & Build-A-Bloody-Bear, she likes adventure stories, playing lego & helping with DIY. But she won't mention any of the latter to her friends in case they think they're "for boys".

YANBU - this really pisses me off too. Aspirations are so important and if a girl sees girls in the catalogue only dressed up as fairies and princesses, its going to take quite a strong minded child to go against.

My nephew used to want to go everywhere in a pair of pink Marigolds, & I remember seeing a little boy in a shoeshop sobbing his heart out because he couldn't have Barbie wellies.

It's all so very arbitrary. Imagine trying to explain it to an alien & the look of complete bewilderment.

YANBU!
This sort of stuff makes me livid - how are they supposed to grow up with an unbiased attitude towards gender roles when every shop, play centre & relative (grr) is constantly shouting "BOYS ARE FIREMEN AND GIRLS ARE FAIRIES!!"?
[rant emoticon]

FimbleHobbs - DD has a lovely cash register by Learning Resources in red.

I'm with you, BBE, I really don't understand how someone can not care about this. Yes, of course I can (and do) buy my son and hypothetical daughter whatever toys I like, but are people really not bothered that one of the UKs main toy shops, which used to pride itself on educational, non gender divided toys, can divide dressing up clothes into 'boys' and 'girls' and denote who gets which toy by colour alone?
And it's not just ELC- any mainstream, accessible toy retailer is just the same. Non gendered toys are available but often online only, or in specialist independent shops that not everyone will have access too, and often more expensive than their blue/pink equivalents.

My DS enjoys playing with his fire engine, farm and cars as well as with his tea set, (pink) pushchair and kitchen. So I don't just blindly accept what ELC tell me to do. But I do find it extremely depressing that I am guided towards some toys as more suitable than others.

Brandybutterfly - it's all relative though. The people who you see as 'not caring' about gender stereotypes potentially have much more significant things to worry about in terms of their childs health and future well being. If the 'only' thing that you have to care about is the effect that a pink cash register has on your daughters potential to become president, then you are very fortunate

I thought the same looking through the John Lewis catalogue - skipped past the 'boys' section to be confronted by and explosion of pink in the 'girls' section. When I looked at the boys section it did indded carry more sophisticated construction toys, science experiments etc.

It's troubling because I don't remember things being so gender biased as a kid. Did have 70's feminist mother busy soldering circuit boards and learning binary code at a tiny table in her bedroom though - think that had more of an effect me than what toys I played with.

Sassy Sadly, I'm a long way from yummy (she says casting a mournful eye over her pitiful third trimester maternity get-up) and I only discovered pinkstinks (my true home ) yesterday after someone on this thread pointed it out - actually thought they had gone slightly overboard with all the 'future role model' t-shirts etc, I don't think our DDs are going to independently go out and buy those either. But agree with the sentiment. Next I shall be googling lelli kellis?! I'm clearly a little out of touch

Also take on board what other posters have said about it being the same for boys. A friend was gently ridiculed by various others for buying her son a pram to play with and another little 3-yr-old boy I know gave up a much-loved flowery pink and purple had after much ribbing

Cross-posted - Sassy wholeheartedly ditto what BBE says.

It's not like there aren't other, bigger things that we all have to worry about but equally I think there are much less important things that people get exercised about. So the 'how ridiculous to even be thinking about that' attitude does strike me as a little odd too.

smallorange I don't remember all this being around growing up either - maybe there was just less advertising/marketing. Also I did have a lot of hand-me-down action men from my brother as well as Sindy dolls so perhaps that's partly it.

YANBU these things are insidious.

My DS's friend won't come to a Christmas play with us because it's Beauty and the Beast which is "for girls." It does not come from his parents at all. In fact it was going to be an all male outing, two dads, two sons, but no, it's girly. (I think the friend is more socially switched on and has therefore got this earlier than my DS1)

And the boy who was crying because he couldn't have Barbie wellies? Erm, if he was shopping for wellies and was told no not those ones then that just underlines that there is an unnecessary gender division.

about the girl hiding her interest in Lego for fear of being too boyish. I must say it had never occurred to me that Lego might be a boy's toy, it's just excellent.

Brandybuttefly - I didn't mean to demean anyones personal experiences and realised that's what it sounded like as soon as I pressed submit.

You wrote :'
It's about children liking things, then being confused about whether that's ok.

The dismay on a child's face when they have a wobble about whether they are 'allowed' to like something saddens me.'

is interesting because to my mind, it could equally be applied to kids who are subject to pressure from their parents NOT to conform to a specific stereotype. So girls AND boys who have parents with issues about gender stereotying and who enforce those issues by banning pink/refusing to let kids do certain activities (ballet etc) are much more at risk of feeling that they are disappointment and being scared that they are not allowed to enjoy something, because of parental 'controls'

Sorry, I really can't see the issue here. I have tried to look at it from a different angle and I have completely failed to see this as anything to get worked up about. You have free choice. Are you going to let advertisers dictate every area of your children's lives? If your child wants their tea at McDonalds every afternoon because the adverts say it's really nice there, what do you do?

If the catalogues bother you then don't look at them. Shop online or in the store.

Somethinganything - equally, the notion that you 'must' care about it is equally odd is it not, depending of course on your POV ?

Sassy I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating 'banning' pink or ballet or trains or whatever - it's just about allowing them to make their own decisions. I'm never going to tell DD what she should or shouldn't like - and as it happens she has a number of very lovely pink items of clothing. It's about making sure she grows up knowing that she can wear what she likes/do whatever she likes and that it doesn't make her any less of a girl. My niece for example refused to wear trousers because they are "for boys" and "not pretty" - which as I said earlier is all stuff she's picked up from nursery/TV not from her parents.

Rockbird - re your fast food analogy: can you imagine an ad on kids TV showing a group of happy, cool kids eating KFC and having a brilliant time while some miserable nerds sat in the corner ate pasta and broccoli? I realise no-one is saying 'pink is good/blue is bad' or vice versa but advertising definitely ascribes colours and activities according to gender and of course that has an impact whether you exercise control as a parent or not.

sassy there's a difference between saying "you must care about xxx" and being surprised when someone says "it's crazy to care about this, I don't get why it's an issue at all".

Different things bother different people and I know, for example, that some mums are v concerned about the impact of 'In the Night Garden' on their children's linguistic skills while I couldn't give a toss. But I still wouldn't think it ridiculous for them to care about it

Something - I admit to missing the posts posts when people have said that it's crazy or ridiculous to care about this as an issue and as I still can't work out how to trawl back through these pages in sequences I'll take your word for it My point was in direct response to the poster who was perplexed as to why people didn't care and I think that my rational for not caring i.e bigger things to worry about is valid.

Now have you found the Lelli Kellis ? - prepared to be pinked and sparkled into submission

Unfortunately those of us out there that dont give a toss about gender specific toys and will buy whatever for our children are the minority. Sad, but true.
Almost 10 years working at certain toyshop and most people want pink for girls/blue for boys.
Everyday I will see a dad telling his DS off for going anywhere near the display sizzlin kitchen or for wanting to push around a toy pram. "Urgh thats for girls, dont touch it, you're a boy" Ironically enough usually said whilst propped against the childs own pushchair.

I personally dont care what colour/type toy my DS has. My bugbear is double of things makes less room in my stockrooms, plus people with one of each gender child will go for the more neutral version, which tends to be the blue so then we are left with lots of pink stuff.

I think the PinkStinks campaign is fantastic - they are tackling ELC at the moment because of the increasingly stereotypical nature of the toys available - a pink globe anyone?

I was having this discussion with my DH last night.

Personally, I like pink, and I don't mind that there are lots of pink princessy things out there for girls - what REALLY bothers me is that there's so little else that's actually marketed at them.

Take the monopoly game that's been pinked up for girls - I find it disturbing that the message it's sending out is that girls are supposed to be interested solely in being pretty, shoes and shopping.

We came to the conclusion that our child will probably decide for herself what she likes, and the best we can do is make sure that she knows there are other options open to her.

So, YANBU to care about this. Plenty of people out there agree with you.

Go visit www.pinkstinks.co.uk/ and see what they're about.