Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

To think this is unfair punishment to my DS?

45 replies

SingleMum01 · 03/12/2009 09:15

My DS told me he had to miss playtime yesterday and some of his Friday golden time this week as he had pushed a child over. Fair enough.

However, when I asked him what had happened he told me the other child was teasing him and pushed him quite a few times and he'd had enough. Unfortunately for my DS the dinner lady only saw my DS push the other child and told his teacher that.

From what I can gather neither child were given the opportunity to say what happened to the teacher and as a result my DS has received a punishment but the other child hasn't.

Unfortunately for my DS too, the other child is a girl who is smaller than my DS.

To my knowledge I've never seen or heard of my DS start a fight, he's usually quite a gentle child.

My DS is upset that he is receiving all the punishment and the other child isn't getting any. He understands that he shouldn't have pushed the other child and he should be punished. Now I know I wasn't there so can't be sure what exactly happened, but I feel it is unfair.

My DS wants me to speak to the teacher about the unfairness, so I don't think he's lying as if he was he wouldn't want me to speak to the teacher!

OP posts:

Stayingsunnygirl · 03/12/2009 10:20

You and your son just want fairness, right SingleMum? I think it is unfair when one child pushes another to the point where the second child finally retaliates, but because only the retaliation was seen, the first child gets away with their unpleasant behaviour.

I suspect that what the little girl was doing was under the supervising staff's radar - not bad enough to catch their attention, but done repeatedly until your ds blew up and pushed her. FWIW, I have heard a similar story on a number of occasions, and I do believe that both parties need to be dealt with.

Children notice when something isn't fair, and it can cause resentment. Fairness and justice in this case would result in both children being punished for misbehaving.

And let's not forget that, at the moment, the little girl has got the message that she can do what she wants and will get away with it - as well as getting the other child punished too - possibly not the best message to send!

tethersend · 03/12/2009 10:23

It certainly isn't fair, but I think he needs to deal with the unfairness.

Unless you want to volunteer to sit in the playground every playtime watching for fairness and ensuring correct punishments are carried out...? Careful you don't get it wrong though!

Stayingsunnygirl · 03/12/2009 11:37

Good points, tethersend. It's certainly not easy for those supervising playtime.

2shoes · 03/12/2009 11:40

SingleMum01 no it isn't but sadly it is always the one that hits back that gets caught(always happened to ds)
lovely to say the girl is rough!!!

Original poster

SingleMum01 · 03/12/2009 14:29

2shoes what did you advise your DS?

OP posts:

mummyflood · 03/12/2009 15:04

2shoes, I can totally see where you are coming from. If this was either of my DS, yes obviously I would back the school in sanctioning them. BUT I would also want to know the full story from the teacher, as I know that neither of my DS would just randomly push another child. Unfortunately, when my 2 were at primary, it was headteacher/school policy to punish the retaliator more in a situation such as this - not just my opinion, but what the headteacher actually said to me. Very much a 'turn the other cheek' policy, regardless of the amount of provocation, etc.

Thankfully I have found secondary more realistic in most situations - DS2 has had a couple - at least they take into account the full story first, there are always 2 sides, and deal accordingly. Have you spoken to the teacher yet? Sounds promising that he/she has indicated they want to speak to you - it was always me that made the request, and as the teachers on here have said, it's easy to become a problem parent if you ask too many questions

Original poster

SingleMum01 · 03/12/2009 19:44

Thanks for your support mummyflood, it was a different teacher at hometime so I didn't get to speak to her. I don't know whether to let it go or see if she still wants to speak to me tomorrow.

I'm quite happy to become a problem parent - if I don't look out for my DS no-one else with

OP posts:

Original poster

SingleMum01 · 03/12/2009 19:44

sorry - no-one else will

OP posts:

Acanthus · 03/12/2009 19:48

SM - there's NO WAY you can know the whole story here. Tethersend has given you excellent advice above. DON'T go into school and be an arse about it.

Original poster

SingleMum01 · 03/12/2009 19:56

Acanthus - if you'd read the posts you'd have read the teacher wants to see me. I agree I don't know the whole story as I wasn't there, but neither was the teacher.

I'm not the type of mum that thinks her DS is a complete angel and as I said I think he should be punished.

If my DS tells his teacher he gets told off for telling tales, so he can't win whichever he does.

OP posts:

secretskillrelationships · 03/12/2009 20:48

Haven't read the whole thread but have a different perspective to what I have read. My DS was bitten when he was around 3 in two different settings.

At day nursery the whole incident was explored and I was made very aware of my DS's role in what happened (he took a toy off another child). In fact I felt quite uncomfortable - my poor PFB had been hurt and here I was feeling that he was, in part, responsible. In the other setting (playgroup) the other child was told off/punished.

My DS was happy to continue to go to day nursery but started feeling anxious about playgroup. I talked to him about what had happened and he told me that he had moved his chair when the child went to sit down. I told him that this is why the child got angry and bit him. I explained that biting was not acceptable but that moving his chair was also not okay and that the child could have been hurt. I said that the child felt angry and expressed that anger. My DS was 3 at the time so I felt that explanations had to be fairly simple but honest.

Having had that conversation, DS became happy to go to playgroup and even became good friends with the child concerned.

It made me really think through how I feel about individual's roles in undesirable behaviour and how we, as adults, address it.

Children are big on fairness and need to see that everyone is being treated fairly even if it means they are called to account for their behaviour. The alternative is that their behaviour doesn't matter as long as they are not caught/can get away with it. Not only does this feel unfair, I think it is also scary for a child. They want to know that adults are in charge and know what is going on. It also leads some children to disenguage and, I believe, can lead to bullying-type behaviours if children feel they can 'get away with' these sorts of behaviour.

The most inspiring teacher my DS had was in year 1. If necessary, she would spend 10-15 minutes after break time sorting out any issues that had arisen. This may have gone against the prevailing drive in terms of National Curriculum, but she had a class of children who were incredibly kind and generous towards each other. I know it was down to her approach as I watched what happened to these children over the following few years.

So, for all the children involved, I think that assuming that what was seen was the total story was unhelpful at best. Just like adults, children need to feel that they are heard, their views are important and that they are treated fairly.

How would you feel if your boss walked in on a heated argument you were having with a colleague at the end and gave you a verbal warning on the basis of what he or she heard without finding out the whole story?

mmrred · 03/12/2009 21:30

Agree that the lesson here is that DS should have told the teacher about being pushed, not taken the law into his own hands against a smaller, younger child. I think that's the tack I'd take - he feels unfairly treated but wider issue - it is unfair to push smaller, younger children and he doesn't know what causes this child to behave in this way, perhaps she has a difficult time of it for whatever reason.

CracklinRosie · 04/12/2009 00:16

Can you imagine the chaos if every time a kid came home and gave Mummy the old "but he started it" routine, his Mummy went marching into the school to complain? They're teachers, not bloody coppers! Do you want to instate court martial or something? So what if your precious LO gets a momentary rough deal, no doubt there'll be another occasion when he gets away scot free and some other kid gets the raw deal.

It's life! Having Mummy storming in to fight his corner will only make him look pathetic, to his classmates and his teacher. Let it go. Seriously singlemum you sound like a staff room nightmare. It's a playground tiff. Far better if you had said to your child, "I don't care who started it or what they did, I'm very cross with you for getting into trouble at school." Honestly, these are the kids who grow up to think the world owes them something...

Stayingsunnygirl · 04/12/2009 08:16

Singlemum never said anything about "storming in", Rosie - she is considering speaking to the teacher - hardly the same thing!

kinnies · 04/12/2009 09:35

agree with rosie

Its not nice when our Dc's get into trouble and I know I can feel a little bit over protective when I hear the childs version of events (so not just you )

I would however be worried how my son learnt that it was ok to hit girls and worse than that one smaller than him!! He seems to think that its fine by you. You seem more worried about making sure the other child gets punished than sorting out your own childs behaviour. Although your son told you that she started it you really cant know what went on as you were not there.

Like I said I do understand why you feel the way you do but it really is not the end of the world and your son will be fine I'm sure.

Stayingsunnygirl · 04/12/2009 11:26

I don't think that the OP is saying that her ds shouldn't be punished for hitting the girl, nor that that is acceptable behaviour. But she feels that it is not fair that he was punished for hitting the little girl, whilst she wasn't punished for teasing and pushing him. I certainly didn't get the impression that she didn't care about her son's behaviour.

No-one wants the lad to learn it is OK to hit, but equally, the little girl needs to learn that she can't tease and push other children.

kinnies · 04/12/2009 14:21

OOps! just re-raed the Op and yep it does say that op's Ds understands he was wrong to push other child so I'm sorry about being a twit!

I shall miss my morning break by way of appology

I do however still say that we cant know that the little girl started it, although your son seems to be quite up-front about his part in the tiff.

Original poster

SingleMum01 · 04/12/2009 16:35

Just to let everyone know what's happened as I seem to have caused a debate. I haven't spoken to the teacher or 'storming in' - I was only going to as my DS told me she wanted to speak to me. I certainly wouldn't go speaking to the teacher everytime he told me something had happened.

He has had all his punishment now - although he hasn't been very happy about it as he still sees it as unfair that only he received punishment and wasn't listened to - and rightly so I believe.

We had a talk about him telling the teacher if anyone hurts him and not retaliating so he then can't be blamed - time will tell.

We also talked about pushing girls. I've never had to talk about this issue before as its never arisen. As he's now 7 and he's never hurt a girl before, I think that just goes to show he's not an aggressive boy.

OP posts:

kinnies · 04/12/2009 16:37

Oh good hope he's ok now.
Whoever said school days are care free never had kids!!

ijustwanttoaskaquestion · 04/12/2009 16:50

much as i agree with you that it IS unfair, this could actually be quite a good lesson for your wee lad. In as much as, ok, so the other child was picking on him, what he should of done, in the perfect world is - walk away, or go and tell the teacher. By retaliating, he sunk to her level and did the wrong thing, but he was seen and was punished for it and she wasn't. Another reason to walk away, its sods law that happens a lot i bet.

Wrong that both children weren't spoken to, but maybe the little girl was spoken to. I would tell him he has to just "suck it up" (sorry) and that next time he should tell the teacher.

Flip

1 2