to be annoyed by this on the early learning centre website...

[dreamylady]

"For the little princess in the family we have great feminine outfits like Butterfly Fairy, Sleeping Beauty, Ballerina and Nurse's uniform. Why not add a medical case for that extra touch of authenticity.

The boys are catered for too, with great Doctor, Policeman & Fireman uniforms, not to mention fantastic Pirate and Knight costumes. All these can be combined with a range of accessories so your child will really look the part."

Here's the page: www.elc.co.uk/toys/dressing-up-roleplay/dressing-up-outfits/?filter=filter&category=604

gr r!! I've already written them an email to complain, but I wondered what the general mumsnetter concensus would be?

Yes ELC had done gender stereotyping for ages. We have quite alot of elc products. My dd has doctor dress up and my ds wanted Tower of Toom (scary bat castle). Big mistake he never plays with it. We always tried to buy dd non gender specific stuff but the house is now full of the usual girly bits. Although ds was prancing around in her fairy oufit last night!

Yanbu OP.

I get pissed off with the ridiculous polarisation of boys' and girls' toys. Not just ELC, though they are particularly bad imo.

And to those who say "Well the kids express a preference", how do you think they arrive at that 'choice'?

YANBU

and the whole "genetics" argument is false, pink was a masculine colour at the beginning of the 20th century.

Gotta run to the shop now but will find and post a couple of links that prove how absurd these claims are

I don't agree that any gender bias is in your head - they say it, in print, costumes for boys and those for girls.

I don't understand why they have changed?

YANBU - they do it to maximise sales.

If they can convince parents (and grandparents with cash to spend) that boys and girls need separate toys then they can double their market.

I used to get all my brother's old toys but now you hear well meaning people saying 'well I was going to buy him a bike but they only had girls' ones' or 'she wants a toy lorry but I'm struggling to find a pink one' etc etc.

My DPs family think that if you give a child the 'wrong gender' toy then you might as well buy them a neon sign saying 'future homosexual'.

Toy shops know this, and pander to it in order to maximise profits.

It seems that those who don't 'care' about the pink issue feel that in admitting the power of advertising and high street stores in turn gives up their own sense of control and power.

I understand it is hard to face manipulation from these stores but the power of advertising and reinforcing of ideas and stereotypes in our culture is a very real thing. Literally no-one can escape it, but being aware of it and trying to do something about it goes some way in actually claiming this power back-feeling you are somehow immune does not! Its not as easy as 'voting with your feet'.

The issue isn't just about how girls feel about themselves but its how boys view them too. If boys learn that pink represents a frivality and obsession towards the way girls look and feel then they too are going to believe it, thus reinforcing the stereotype that girls all glitter and of no substance.

Changing the colour of a garage to pink for absolutely no reason suggests girls need it 'dressing up' and made pretty in order to enjoy something that boys see as a practical and functional thing. This surely undermines the girls position both for boys and girls?
Its not about the colour, its about what the colour has been made to connotate that is dangerous.

YANBU

I hate gender neutral items...like a rucksack...only being available in pale pink or pale blue (from GLTC).
A product aimed at school age children...why the pale pink and blue?

I went to Bright Minds who had the inevitable pink and blue but also red or navy.

Letterbox did a wooden desk calender...in pink or blue

WHY?

My DD doesn't like either of those colours.

Hmm. If it's true that pink was seen as a masculine colour until fairly recently, could it be argued that this love affair for all things pink is about reclaiming the colour for girls?

I have no idea, of course, and my house is a pink free zone.

"Well the kids express a preference", how do you think they arrive at that 'choice'?

I honestly believe it may be genetic - I have absolutely no evidence for this other than my own anecdotal evidence ()that despite a house full of pink girls stuff my DS (who has a sister 15mths older) shows a striking preference towards anything overtly masculine and DD wouldn't be seen dead in anything less than a pink feather boa and a sleeping beauty dress.

Combined with the fact there have been numerous studies proving the way in which girls and boys play is gender specific as are the toys which they choose to play with this (to me suggests) that boys and girls are different - I don't know why people are so bloody outraged by this idea: different doesn't mean less or worse or insignifiacnt.

Only read half way so far...

Has anyone mentioned the pink globe yet.

Drives me mad

DD1 (aged 3) chose dinosaur PJs from JL recently, and they've started labeling their clothe John lewis Boy and John Lewis Girl. I was mildly irritated but frankly it doesn't matter for me yet as DD can't read yet

Nancy if that were true (and I haven't done any studies) then wouldn't it mean there would be no incentive for ELC to make toys in two colour alternatives as girls would just play with girls toys and boys with boys toys?
Think thats what people are outraged by-their kids want to play with a toy-whether it was made for a boy a girl, so why but a gender on it with a colour?

*put

What has totally infuriated me is the pointless 'pink' globe complete with pink sea and land pictured with a girl in pink.

The picture next to it is your regular correct globe with blue sea, brown land etc pictured with a boy playing with it.

What hacks me off is that a pink globe is even made,what point has it,what does it teach? Even worse why are girls expected to play with such a pointless piece of crap whilst boys are expected to play with the correct globe that would actually teach them something.

Even my 4 year old dd didn't see the need for such a pointless piece of tat-"but it's stupid mummy the sea isn't pink".

My ELC days are well and truly over,the globe was the final straw. They aren't into furthering kids learning just selling crappy over priced toys. Pink sells and that's all there is to it. Having said that I've yet to meet a mother who isn't fed up with the pink Happy Land,ovens etc they've recently started selling. 5 years ago everything was lime green and it was fab, I know soooo many mums who wish they'd go back to the non pink days but somebody must be buying them I guess can't think who though.

nancy what are the figures though? What percentage of children only want to play with the toys that they are "supposed" to play with?

if it's 99% then that's one thing but I suspect it isn't, if it's eg 60% doesn't that mean that the other 40% of children are being restricted in what they are "allowed" to play with? And isn't that a bad thing?

I was never interested in all the obvious "girly" things when I was a child (or as an adult) - I can't believe that I am grossly abnormal.

I also notice at toddler groups that both sexes play freely with all the toys - girls with lorries and boys with pushchairs etc. I always assumed this was because they were too young to have picked up on cues yet. Or are all the children at my toddler group abnormal as well?

Also re the play I agree boys and girls do choose different things by choice. I have twin boys and a girl with a years gap. She has always done the girly thing and the boys the vehicles thing even though they have exactly the same access to toys in our house. I know from teaching however you do it girls have to be hauled out of the role play corner and boys off the lego.

However I think the pink thing is influenced by parents. I hate pastel pink and have always dressed dd in greens,purples,orange,turquoise etc. DD tends to go for those colours,she likes a bit of pink but doesn't demand it and more often that not chooses the other bolder colours. She is quite content in her own skin and isn't too easily swayed by peer pressure.

I did go a bit hormonal though when expecting her(one does when you've had 2 boys) and painted her room the colour of a marshmallow,we both hate it now.

carryondancing it is absolutely true that given a choice girls and boys will usually choose "gender specific" toys. If there is no choice it has been shown that the way in which girls and boys play with the same toy is in itself "gender specific" e.g. with a doll girls will adopt a nurturing caring roleplay with the doll whereas boys will use the doll as an object for batting a ball etc.

By colouring toys pink and blue the ELC are simply covering all bases by making something that would perhaps otherwise be unappealing to one gender more so. They are also thoroughly indulging this obsessive attitude amongst parents that play must be gender neutral by making toys that one gender might not choose to play with more appealing- like I said earlier they are laughing all the way to the bank!

I don't feel that by admitting the power of advertising I give up any sense of control. I do however feel supremely confident that the fact that I am an independent, professional woman that has made a sucess of her life is going to be a far more potent influence on my DC's life than a pink cash register from the ELC.

When they first started ELC made a huge hoohah about everything being ungendered, equal, no branded character toys etc - and made a shitload of money off the back of that, and then seemed to completely throw it out, so OP no YANBU in the slightest.

I am sick of household items or baby items only being available in pinks - I'm a Childminder and need gender neutral things.

But how often is "usually" is the thing I want to know.

I just don't believe that 99% of girls and 99% of boys with free choice and at an age before they have been taught what to do by society always choose the toys for their gender.

It is not what I see at the toddler group.

People say "a majority", "usually" but what does this actually mean?

It interests me as I had no interest in girls toys as a child, and always preferred the "boys" things, and I don't remember feeling particularly out of place at nursery or school or anywhere.

YANBU. I dislike the gender stereotyping. I don't consider the promotion of narrowly defined ideas about femininity in popular culture harmless or irrelevant to either myself or my DD. I believe that these messages do have an effect/reflect attitudes held in society that are at odds with my own values.

Nancy I completely agree that boys and girls will play with the same toys differently. I also agree that what ELC have done in introducing alternative colours is fantastic marketing and very clever. It is undoubtably an amazing money spinner and as you say they are laughing all the way to the bank--and I think this is exactly what has people so infuriated.

ELC have a mission statement stating their passions towards education-this instills trust from parents. Yet what educational value does the pink globe have? We all have the best intentions as parents but having the accurate and appropriate tools with which to educate our children would definately help.

So yes we can all just go out and buy the standard globe, but does it not concern you that the ELC think there is a place for a pink globe? Does their manipulation to sell two globes to the same household not stir you up?

Haven't read the whole thread but...

The colour coding thing is soooo annoying. Why have pink and blue wheelbarrows - why not just green?

I have noticed, BTW, that the quality of ELC has gone down since they joined forces with Mothercare.