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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think cheap books are not such a great idea

51 replies

WouldYouCouldYouWithAGoat · 30/11/2009 14:25

just back from borders - if a big company like that cannot compete in thsi market we really are in teh sit re. choice, quality etc. interesting article here. amazon is terrific but i am now worried the only books on offer will be celeb tat adn pulp shit such as ' the zookeeper's goddaughter' and the like.

amen

OP posts:
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 30/11/2009 14:31

I think its very sad that Borders are closing, nothing beats browsing through a book store.

Not just book shops though. All sorts of shops such as bed shops, sports shops are closing down. The danger is that at the minute people will go to a shop such as a bed shop, try the models on display and then go home and get it for cheaper online. The online stores don't have the same overheads. But in 10 years time we'll be stuffed when there aren'tthe shops in the high st and you have to buy stuff on the internet without trying it/seeing it in the flesh first.

Original poster
WouldYouCouldYouWithAGoat · 30/11/2009 14:32

yes but i can't really get excited about a bed shop!

OP posts:
Firawla · 30/11/2009 14:34

you can buy all kinds of books online not just "celeb tat and pulp shit" so i don't see how that point is valid
it is a shame about borders though, i was quite suprised to hear it although i never buy from there myself and would go straight to online places as they are cheaper, so shouldn't have really been so suprised

Original poster
WouldYouCouldYouWithAGoat · 30/11/2009 14:35

it is valid, as publishers are under pressure to shift units and therefore will lean towards 'the blahdeblah's blah' type books cos they will sell and not because they are any good.

OP posts:
StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 30/11/2009 14:36

Bed shops may not be as exciting but you wouldn't be happy if tehre aren't any next time you need a bed.

Original poster
WouldYouCouldYouWithAGoat · 30/11/2009 14:37

there will always be ikea

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 30/11/2009 14:39

Personally I found my local Borders staff to be very helpful and I liked the shop a lot.

However, these days, shops have to set themselves apart from web-only stores. Decent customer service would be a start. When most companies - Woolworths, Virgin to name a couple who have gone under recently don't give a crap about staff - bad wages, rubbish training, what do they expect? When I go into a shop and it's a nightmare finding someone to help and when I do they look at me like I'm annoying them, why would I go back? I like to shop somewhere with helpful staff and when someone treats me like an idiot I don't go back (thank you Boots, you'll be next).

It's similar to the record labels complaining about torrenting. Yes, it's threatening your business, but don't just sit here moaning about it, do something! Try something new, work with it!

Maybe if companies spent longer working out how to make people want to go in their shops, they might be able to attract more customers. You couldn't have paid me to go into Woolies, I've not seen a more unfriendly shop.

GrimmaTheNome · 30/11/2009 14:41

I think its the supermarkets far more than amazon who bear the responsibility for undercutting proper bookshops on the cheap tat and 'bestsellers'. Amazon has a huge range if you know what you want. Online retailers don't need huge stocks, so there can be more small print runs of new authors.

NightShoe · 30/11/2009 14:47

I find it worse that chains of bookshops like borders knocked out the small independent ones. I find nothing exciting about going into identical bookshops, with identical layouts and the coffee shop stuck in the middle.

Just because I shop on Amazon doesn't mean I buy crap books. It means that shops like waterstones charging £7 for a children's picture book is taking the piss frankly.

specialmagiclady · 30/11/2009 14:56

This doesn't work for bookstores, but what I do is browse prices on 'tinternet then go into local stores and ask if they can match the price.

Good deal and guilt assuaged!

TheArmadillo · 30/11/2009 15:06

I don't think it's fair for amazon to take all the flak here. When I was a student they were the best place to get hard to find books - i.e. academic texts. Often linking you to companies that did small print runs of less popular texts. Stuff that I couldn't order through places like waterstones or at least without a huge mark up (think £60 for 1 text). Without amazon I wouldn't have bought these at all.

Also I think there is a reasonably large second hand market for books. Oxfam now has a big second hand book chain, and also I know a couple of little independant second hand book shops that still seem to be surviving. And again amazon is a place that seems to promote this as well. Also shop soiled book places seem to be doing well.

But I agree that supermarkets etc sell books at a ridiculously low price.

PArt of me thinks that it would be a good idea to bring back the 1995 thing that fixed the prices to the RRP. On the other hand I wonder whether it is fair to other industries that can't do that or whether it will lead to price fixing in all.

Litchick · 30/11/2009 15:13

The publishing industry is in a pickle at the moment because of the heavy discounting being demanded by all booksellers. TBH Amazon are as bad as Tesco who are as bad as Waterstones...

The publishing houses initially wnet with it because the quid pro quo was that large numbers of books were shifted in a way that had never been the case.

Of course it's all come a bit of a cropper because booksellers just don't get the traffic. Books used to be a luxury item, and readers didn't mind paying a fair price or going to the library but now everyone wants them for next to nothing.

Litchick · 30/11/2009 15:16

Should say also that Borders had a strange business model that replicated the US way of shopping ie out of town.
In the UK we still like our high street stores and wouldn't generally make a trip to a mall for a book.
I think the High Street branches of Borders will be snapped up, the out of towners will become yet more DIY centres.

Jjou · 30/11/2009 15:19

But last time I went into Borders they didn't have either of the books I wanted - I had to go and order them from Amazon. I prefer going into shops and coming out with my purchase there and then as I'm very impatient, but it's often not possible. Waterstones is even worse than Borders for never having what I need when I need it - the fact that books are cheaper on Amazon is a bonus, I don't mind paying full price.

MrsMellowdrummer · 30/11/2009 17:49

Our local Borders is/was a fantastic place.

Very friendly and knowledgeable staff - particularly the chap in charge of children's books who recognised my son whenever we went in, and made a point of greeting him by name, and stretching his reading interests by making very well judged recommendations to him.

I'm so it's closing.

Darn good chocolate cake upstairs too. Book buying there has been an event for our household!

GrimmaTheNome · 01/12/2009 16:12

Litchick, we used to go to Borders precisely because it was out of town - much more convenient. And for the coffee and cake .

Peachy · 01/12/2009 16:19

We don't have a Borders although DH has one on campus IIRC.

If I want a book I have to drive into the city, pay to park (several pouns), walk over then find its not there,order and repeat to collect.

or go online.

Now, if there was a small store in my town (sort of hybrid tourity village town to be exact) then I would use it most weeks, but there isn't (although we have a Uni so you'd think wouldn't you?). So I end up using Amazon.

As will most people I think.

The few indie bookstiores I know thata re doing OPK seem to specialise in short run books (usually titled things like historic sheds of the south west) and then stock big sellers and get anything else in next day.

nickelbabe · 01/12/2009 16:26

thank you all for your support

seriously: it is hard being an independent bookshop these days: i sometimes get really annoyed when people stnad in my shop talking in front of me about how they can get suchandsuch cheaper on amazon.
problem is, you can't browse properly there: you might spot something on on the shelf that you hadn't even thought about wanting and it be jsut the book you're looking for!

I would love to own a proper bookshop that sold all types of books, but i just can't compete on that with all the chains/amazon that cut prices all over the place.
i've specialised in children's because that's where my biggest love is, and I hope that my knowledge and expertise (and great customer service ) make up for any discounts they can offer.

(i do mail order too, by the way...)

MrsBiscuit · 01/12/2009 17:33

I used to work for a small chain of bookstores that found that it couldn't continue mainly because of the supermarkets, not just Amazon.

One case was Harry Potter. The supermarkets could pressure the publishers into buying books at ridiculously low prices because of the quantity they wanted, and then sell them on with very low margins. We couldn't even buy the books from the publishers at the price the supermarkets were selling them.

Smaller bookshops rely on the sales of blockbusters to fund the more literary, obscure or academic books which sit on the shelves for longer. Once the supermarkets nabbed the cheap end of the market, it becomes inevitable that ranges are reduced and more and more popular items are stocked, which will sell more easily.

It doesn't bode well for choice on the high street.

nickelbabe · 02/12/2009 15:21

MrsB: i worked at a large chain when it was the last HP time and we sold the book at a 93p loss, just so we could sell it at half price.
supermarkets look at this kind of thing as a loss leader so they don't care if it gets people into the shop.
they come in to buy HP, they leave with their week's shopping "might as well while we're here"

TheBossofMe · 02/12/2009 15:46

What's your shop nickelbabe and how can I order from it - sounds just my cup of tea!

nickelbabe · 03/12/2009 11:42

aww, Boss, thanks!
i don't think i'm allowed to mention it, but if you google children's bookshops in sittingbourne, it's the first one in the list. (you have to pick "sites from the UK" though or it doesn't come up)
for an extra hint, the logo is purple and has a big black teddy bear sitting down next to it.

Kathyis12feethighandbites · 03/12/2009 11:47

There's a terrific independent bookshop near us but if I'm being honest we hardly ever buy from it. It's not the cost (once you've paid Amazon postage the discount isn't usually as big as it looked at first anyway) it's the convenience - having identified a book on Amazon I would have to drive/get bus into small town, get them to order it for me then go back a few days later to pick it up.
They are currently doing all sorts of things to get people into the shop - reading groups, children's storytime - which really serves a purpose as there is no library in the town at the moment. Really hope it works out for them but I wonder if it will....

nickelbabe · 03/12/2009 11:50

Kathy, most shops will put it by for you (or even post it out to) if you ring them up. I tend to take books round to people's houses if they ring or email me and they're in the local area.

Kathyis12feethighandbites · 03/12/2009 11:58

duh
Why did I never think of doing it by phone?
Yeah they probably would deliver it as well - they're that type of shop! Good thinking Nickelbabe.

Maybe what I would really need would be to have an account with them to save having to go through credit card number every time as well? Amazon one-click is so incredibly easy - there must be a way independents can replicate more of the Amazon experience!

I'm thinking, if I used them more intelligently, there are some things they could do better than Amazon - eg when I was pregnant I read one Marian Keyes book liked it so much I decided to read all of them. Instead of spending ages going through Amazon I guess I could have rung them up and said 'Get me every Marian Keyes book that's in paperback except for Sushi For Beginners'!

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