Being friends with the non- mistress

[SomeoneElseToo]

My father had a secret friendship with the next door neighbour while my mother was working abroad for four years. My mother found emails, credit card receipts from restaurants etc that brought their friendship in to the open.

At the same time, my sister and I have befriended this woman whenever we visited my father and she has made great efforts to be our friends.

My mother is back home now, and insists that my father is in love with the other woman and that she is 'evil' for going after a married man, yet both my father and the other woman insist that they are only friends. (Although she refused to be my mom's friend, even when my mom was on home visits etc. She plainly avoided both my mom and dad when my mom was around and told my mom she should allow her husband his privacy)

I can understand why mom feels as she does, I mean, my dad's never taken HER to fancy restaurants, and certainly not two or three times in a week!

Now my mother is insisting that we have no contact with the 'other woman', who tried to wreck her marriage, and I'm having a hard time with that. I'm not especially close with the other woman, but don't like that I am being told who to be friends with. I mean I'm 30 and live in a different country to them all!

I have asked my dad and the other woman if there was a relationship, and they've both said no, so it is just the 'evidence' that we have to go on, i.e. receipts etc, but if there was no adultery, I see no reason to write the other woman off, despite my mom's feelings.

Am I being selfish and unreasonable?

Oh perfectstorm, how I wish I was trolling, then.

You are right. Seeing it in black and white makes it all a lot clearer, somehow, and more 'obvious'. Guess that's what I needed.

Thank you

Why the heck should you even care about this other woman?

Shouldn't your loyalties lie with your own mother?

I agree with the other posters that it's really strange the woman is actively seeking out a friendship with you when you don't even live in the same country!

What's the necessity to email you regularly when she's just a friend of your father? And not want the same kind of friendship with your mother?

She sounds like a really manipulative sort of woman. Don't hurt your mother by falling for her games.

"I have a month old baby and somehow I've had no baby blues or anything, yet today I could hardly get out of bed. I actually feel that depressed/upset by all this."

Oh Christ, no wonder you're confused. They're dragging you into this when you've just had a baby/were heavily pregnant? I didn't know if I was coming or going at that point!

"And to most its an obvious choice with how he's acted, but my dad has been there to protect me all my life. When my mom kicked me out at age 11, he found me and took me home. When I left an abusive spouse and my mom blamed me, he stood up for me and prepared my room back home for me. And so on and so forth. So yeah."

Ah. Okay, I am understanding your confusion better now. To be brutal, do you have much cause to be supportive of your mother - are these extreme examples, or is the relationship not that fantastic in general? Your described situations are not within the realms of the normal - 11 is very, very young, and most mothers would be praying for a daughter to leave an abusive spouse. If she's made his life a misery then (while not condoning his behaviour in the slightest - if he wants out, there are nicer and more adult ways to achieve it) it does get more complicated. And if what you are saying is that your father has always been there for you, and your mother rarely to never, then I suppose what you need to do is work out if you do, in fact, owe her loyalty. Biology is not everything in life.

I think you are maybe getting a hard time here that isn't quite justified, from people who have good relationships with their own mothers. You say your mother 'threw you out' when you were 11, which makes it a lot more understandable that you are not instantly on her side. Is your relationship with your mother difficult anyway? Maybe the OW has at least given you the impression that she is a 'nicer' person than your mother. I think she may well be manipulative, but just because your mother is being cheated on doesn't necessarily make her a good person.

It's true, your dad is the one who is the problem, more so than the woman. However, the point is not whether or not she is 'punished' as much as it is whether or not your mother is being supported. It's already been observed that the woman isn't a good friend. So, I think keeping up the acquaintance is doing more harm to your mother than it is doing good to you or your sister.

I'd be the first to say your mother was being unreasonable, but from what you've said, she isn't. And your dad seems to have created an alternate universe with its own definition of truth and fidelity. I know I'd want the support of my children, were I to find myself in this situation.

good luck!

eh sorry I typed that and didn't hit send for hours, I didn't see the new bit about dad.

I don't know. It's a tough situation. Most of my answer remains the same, though. sigh.

there are different forms of betrayal - and this woman might not have a sexual relationship with your father but they seem to have a closer friendship than he has with your mother, so I can understand her issues with it and OF COURSE she is going to prefer you to stay away from the other woman. She may be feeling betrayed by your father, she doesn't want to feel betrayed by the rest of you as well.

Stay out of it - it's one person, she's not YOUR best friend, how hard is it to accommodate your mum's (non unreasonable imo) request?

OK SomeoneElse, first of all congratulations on your lovely new baby. I am sorry you have to be dealing with this crap when you should be wallowing in all those lovely new baby moments. A new baby, with all the emotions and hormones that that entails, probably makes you more pensive about the 'big things' in life as well. Like love, honesty, relationships, your parents and how they parented you etc No wonder you took to your bed.

I can understand that this is a bit more complicated for you now than your orginal post suggests. You shouldn't have to choose between your mom and dad, but unfortunately you, like other kids ( regardless of your age) in these situations, are being asked to do so. Your dad is still your dad, a good dad no doubt but not a very good husband at the moment. But thats two different things.

So perhaps its time to step back. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated. And tell your sister the same. Cease contact with your dad's friend, you say you don't like confrontation so just don't reply to her contacts. And if he, or his friend, asks, take a deep breath and tell the truth, say the situation is making you uncomfortable. Try saying you don't want to be stuck in the middle of this. That you love him, he's a great dad but he needs to sort out his marriage without you and your sister being party to it. Easier said that done I know.

Unfortunately I think your mum may need more support in this situation, I don't know if you are able to give that given your previous problems. (thats not meant as a criticism BTW) She has no one waiting in the wings to pick her up and her work commitments have isolated her. Has she any friends you could direct her towards or , as a previous poster mentioned could you send her over to the relationships boards or something similar?

You wouldn't feel so depressed and upset by it, if you had shown loyalty to your mum in the first place. Poor her.
How could you even contemplate staying friends with this woman when you knew what your mother felt?

What I think you need to ask yourself is...

If YOUR dh cheated (or you suspected he had) who would YOU expect your mother to support?

You or the 'OW'

If you can, with all sincerity, say the OW, then carry on your friendship with your father's 'friend'. However, if you believe (and I strongly suspect you do) that your mother should support YOU, I think you have your answer.

Wanting to continue a friendship with someone who your mother feels is a threat to her marriage, is somewhat selfish, yes!

Sandcastles, OP has already said that her mother supported the OP's abusive husband when she left him - it was her dad who supported her and insisted they housed her while she sorted things out. So not quite so clearcut.

I do see that now, however I just read the OP & commented on that, but imo, the answer is no different. OP would EXPECT her mother to support her, not another woman, so she in return should get the same respect.

And I asked about another woman, not an abusive partner!

And it was SUPPORT I asked about. I don't feel for one minute that OP's mum went to the abusive partner & supported him in their split, do you? She may have blamed OP, (which I think is very wrong) but that, imo, doesn't amount to supporting said partner.

Having heard the rest of it, I agree with SolidGold... You feel you're having to choose between your mum and dad when your dad has been the better parent.

You need to have a conversation with your dad. You are right to say you should put the appropriate blame on him, rather than all on the other woman. You need to spell out the difficult position you're in.

If he swears there's no affair - ask him what he thinks an affair is - because even if there's no sex or kissing, I think this behaviour is still out of order in a marriage. It sounds like your dad is / can be very reasonable, so you're better off being honest with him and working on building your relationship that way - rather than having to cut him out when you don't want to lose him.

Wow, elliephant gives some great advice on here, especially:

"So perhaps its time to step back. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated. And tell your sister the same. Cease contact with your dad's friend, you say you don't like confrontation so just don't reply to her contacts. And if he, or his friend, asks, take a deep breath and tell the truth, say the situation is making you uncomfortable. Try saying you don't want to be stuck in the middle of this. That you love him, he's a great dad but he needs to sort out his marriage without you and your sister being party to it. Easier said that done I know."

SomeoneElse, congratulations on your baby. I wish you luck in this, but I have every sympathy with your mother - sounds like a horrible situation for her: she has worked away from home for several years, is therefore isolated from any local friends, is isolated from her husband (through his relationship with this woman), and now must feel that her own daughters are being forced away from her. How terribly lonely she must feel.

Rindercella/Elliephant: I think that elliphant quote is IT. OK it may be hard to say, but imagine OP's relief once she's said it...

OP, try it, they are all grown-ups (apparently) let them sort it. It's totally unfair to have you and your sister dragged into this.

I really, truly hope that you can get out of this situation and get back to the important business at hand, of cuddling your LO... congratulations BTW!!

Sorry you are going through this. What a bloody nightmare. Please do, though step away from this. Experience has taught me not to let either parent use you as a confidante over their marital issues. It is simply not fair. Please make your boundaries clear to both of them.

FWIW , OW sounds like a nasty piece of work.

groundhogs I have had the experience of saying this. It IS very hard (father had no-one to confide in except me), but now I am quite angry he even told me what was going on ...

At least go into it with your eyes wide open. if you continue to be friends with this woman, against your mum's wishes (for good reason) then... accept that you're making a choice to support your father and his new relationship over his relationship with your mother. You don't seem to like your mum much so I can understand why you might make that decision.

But don't kid yourself - if DH had a friend, male or female, who refused to hvae anything to do with me, that friend would not remain his friend for very long. Especially a friend that he met AFTER him and I got together. Your father's acceptance of this woman and their refusal to include your mother in their relationship means it is not innocent, no matter what they may say to you or to themselves.

SomeoneElse - do you think you want to punish your mother ? Fair do's if you do, but be clear about your motivation

Jamie, i bet you do, and you were totally justified in doing so... we are constantly telling ourselves not to fight in front of the DC, but some of our parents have to involve us in areas of their lives that are totally inappropriate.

I hope SomeoneElseToo takes the deep breath and tells them all to sort themselves out.

Good points, Blingloving.

groundhogs the fact that my 70 year old dad is "a morning person" is indelibly etched on my brain. Yikes

morning person? do you mean? OMG, you do?

EW!

that's not just TMI, that's bordering on abuse...

can we call the SS on ourselves and get ourselves put into care when we are in our 30/40s?

Thanks all for your advice and comments.

My mom - well, she herself had a pretty rubbish upbringing. I know in the early years of having kids my dad would come home from work and ask her if she'd hugged her kids today, for instance. Affection was just not something she knew. That said, my examples were extreme examples, which affected me hugely in my life, but we go through good spells too. She was here and (although kept ranting about my dad, understandably) was a huge support to us. As a person, I am incapable of staying angry, or carrying a grudge, so I just let her 'moods' run off me, to be honest. So no, I don't think I'm trying to punish her - I just ....

my mom's a VERY hard person to live with sometimes (and I don't even live with her). It's her way or the highway. I mean, she kicked me out cause she didn't like the music I was listening to,and didn't want my bad influence over the younger child. (I was listening to Gospel Rock, when she only allowed Jewish music in the house. [we're not Jewish])

That kind of thing. No alcohol (her father was an alcoholic), no parties and definitely def def no mixed friendships - she's convinced my husband will never trust me because I have male friends (and this before this thing with my dad). So yeah. She's hard to please at the best of times.

Anyway - I feel like we've gone from a good family, pillars of the community, people have always come to them for marriage advice and help and even housing sometimes, to the worst of the worst on Eastenders or simmilar - throwing things at each other and what not!

I guess in truth I'm mourning the loss of something I held sacred.

So - ramble over... what I've decided to do. I believe the OW is lying to me too, and I can't respect that, and can't be friends with someone who lies to me. I'm going to tell her I need some space, and just let it go from there. I'm going to tell my dad that he's put me in a rediculous position and I'm not happy, and I'm going to tell my mom nothing until she asks. I don't want a huge deal made of it, I just want to be left out of it, without being the one who ends up treating anyone else meanly.

So.

Thanks again for all your advice. It really has helped me make things clear in my head. I appreciate it

Sorry meant that to say 'she was here when the baby was born'