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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

In questioning the following lyrics in DS's christmas play?

99 replies

Chickenshavenolips · 19/11/2009 17:32

The song is called 'Girl Power':

'We have got the brains
We have got the skill
We have even got the brawn
We don't need a man, that's overkill
And besides, they make us yawn'

And

'We have got the strength
The mental push
We have got the driving steam
We don't need a man with brains of mush...'

And

'We can do anything better than you, better than you'

DS is 6. AIBU in thinking that this isn't a great message to be sending out to young children? That one sex is 'better than' the other?

OP posts:

mathanxiety · 20/11/2009 15:08

Agree with Adair on every point. The context is just as bad as the song itself. And I think anyone who fobs you off with the argument that it's just lighthearted fun is actually suggesting you are some sort of uptight prudish Mary Whitehouse (or whatever her name is) -- the censorship lady.

If your child is miserable about it, could you take him out of the production? I suggest getting a large group together and approaching the school to scrap the entire thing, though.

It's not that difficult to put another play or show together -- my DC1's school, a good few years ago, put on a 'Christmas/holiday time around the world' show with songs from a few countries, cobbled together with a bit of narrative about traditions such as Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Christmas, etc. It took the teacher two evenings to research and write. And the 4 and 5 year olds learned one verse of songs in German, Swahili and Hebrew in a matter of weeks. All of this stuff is available online, even phonetic pronunciation guides.

Original poster

Chickenshavenolips · 20/11/2009 16:16

Just had a phone call from the senior staff member, and the school have decided to drop the song. Apparently, three other parents had also expressed their concerns, and the teachers have decided to rejig the script a bit.

OP posts:

woahwoah · 20/11/2009 16:55

I recognise these lyrics - they are from a play called Captain Christmas. A school I used to work at put it on a few years ago. It's awful - it has nothing to do with Christmas (it's about pirates!), the plot is non-existent, it has some dubious lyrics (as above)...in fact it was a bit of a disaster! However, the parents seemed to enjoy it . If you don't like it, say so. It may not change for this year, but it may make the school think harder about next year.

Northernlurker · 20/11/2009 17:22

There's a nasty awful play that gets performed a lot, features a black man mudering his white wife. The whole thing steams with racism and violence.

There's another play that my daughter is doing at school atm. The woman in that - what a bitch! Manipulates her husband, incites mass muder and then goes totally fruit loop.

And then there's the other one where a woman is really out there doing her own thing and her husband to be has to beat her back into line......

Ok - much drama and literature doesn't stand up to modern sensibilities because it is of it's time. Much modern written 'stuff' also doesn't match those sensibilities because it is portraying charcaters and situations that are not of this time and place. This play is doing just that. I think it's a really bad message to send out to our kids that we are going to sanitise all the artistic output they see so their feelings aren't hurt!

Op - your son is upset by this song - fine talk to him about the context and about how it is about the silly pirates and about how this one song doesn't define him anymore than 'Jack and Jill' compells him to always fall down hills! You're the parent here - talk to him about this and help him deal with these issues - don't just flap about getting it banned. Sexism, one up manship, putting other people down, succeeding out of a stubbornness only not to let the bastards get you down, feeling stressed by hostility - all these are things your son will have to learn to deal with as he grows. So help him NOW.

Original poster

Chickenshavenolips · 20/11/2009 18:07

I did help him, Northernlurker, I taught him that you should stand up for what you believe in. I didn't 'flap about' getting anything banned, I questioned a dodgy lyric in one song. As it happens, I wasn't alone.

OP posts:

Northernlurker · 20/11/2009 18:13

Sorry no you haven't helped him deal with this! He didn't have to stand up for anything did he? He told you he was upset and you got it removed. Just because a couple of other parents agreed with you that doesn't make it 'right' long term. What about freedom of expression? What about teaching him that actually you can see and hear things that you profoundly disagree with but you don't have to let them dominate your activities and dictate your future?

CarryOnDancing · 20/11/2009 18:15

Lets not forget the boy is 6, I'm not sure I'd want my 6yo 'dealing' with these issues. Id rather he could just respect the teachings of his role models and feel comfortable with something as simple as a play without having to fret about adult issues.

Chicken, you did right to follow your concerns up.

pooexplosions · 20/11/2009 18:17

maybe OP prefers that he learns that sexism is intolerable in schools, and that he should speak up if something bothers him and do the right thing?

As for "artistic expression", christmas pirates is no Shakespeare, and not representing any time gone by unless you can historically place these Spice Girl-esque pirate annabes?

Original poster

Chickenshavenolips · 20/11/2009 18:21

We'll have to agree to disagree, Northernlurker.

OP posts:

Northernlurker · 20/11/2009 18:47

well poo - art can also represent activity that dabbles in the realms of fantasy not actuality can't it? Dodgy Christmas pirates would come under that heading I think.

Chickens - yes lets disagree

Original poster

Chickenshavenolips · 20/11/2009 18:49

OP posts:

pointydogg · 20/11/2009 19:03

SOUnds a fairly rubbish song.

I'd want to know the context though. Makes a huge difference.

MrsCadwallader · 20/11/2009 19:18

Hmmmm, small distinction to be made, though, Northernlurker, between the plays you mentioned and the one being discussed here, in that I don't think Shakespeare intended any of his plays to be performed to or by six-year-olds.....

Course, I could be wrong

Adair · 20/11/2009 19:19

As a Drama Teacher, I have the artistic merit v appropriateness/maturity/awareness debate all the time about plays put on in school. These children are six, the scene sounds unnecessary and inappropriate due to understanding, if not offensiveness anyway.

FWIW I wouldn't complain (maybe comment) as sadly this kind of 'humourous' sexism is everywhere. I wouldn't overly worry about boys being maligned, am sure they'd feel plenty validated by a play called Captain Christmas. I would however sigh a world-weary boredness at yet another Girls can't do it/Yes we can cliche. And would think a lot less of the teachers who chose to put it on.

pointydogg · 20/11/2009 19:23

I like yur style, adair

Ronaldinhio · 20/11/2009 19:25

what's the tune chickens?

NanaNina · 21/11/2009 10:39

Adair - I too like your style! I'm annoyed by my grand daughter's primary school because yet again there is no christmas play. She is in Yr 5 and her class haven't done anything at christmas since yr 2. She is mega disappointed and as a doting nanny I am too! Incidentally her parents are both primary school teachers and are understanding of the school not being able to put on plays for all years. I know teachers have a hugely impossible workload, but is it asking too much for a bit of a play/few songs at christmas.

curryfreak · 21/11/2009 14:03

YABALBU

Seaglass's post gives a little more backround, and puts it in to perspective a bit more.

PrammyMammy · 21/11/2009 14:12

yanbu.. the lyrics are no good for 6 year olds at the best of times, but have nothing at all to do with christmas.

madamearcati · 21/11/2009 16:14

Techno ours is about aliens too

i think the teachers should have had enough common sense to change the lyrics ,and I would have changed the plot so the regular pirates were both boys and girls and that the people they rescue are too

questioneverything · 21/11/2009 16:40

Only read OPs post.

I personally would remove my child from the whole thing.

Its in very bad taste.

Fibilou · 21/11/2009 19:27

"Ummm, it's just a school play, children don't equate that with real life at all"

And that is exactly how stereotypes are subtly maintained. The Mail constantly "reports" on children being punished for making racist comments when they don't know what they mean - and this is exactly when these behaviours become ingrained, when children are taught that they are not wrong. By taught I mean that a child will see anything they are told not to do or say to be acceptable. So if Mummy/teacher/whoever doesn't say to little Johnny "you mustn't call Mohammed a Paki, it's not nice" he will carry on doing it.

Fibilou · 21/11/2009 19:31

sorry, I meant " a child will see anything they are not told not to do or say"...
I wish there was an edit facility

CarryOnDancing · 22/11/2009 17:28

Well put Fibilou, think the majority here believe in taking responsibility for the teaching of our young ones.

Northern I understand your optimism that artistic flavour creates freedom of thought and expression but surely at such an influencial age it is better to guide and leave the soul-searching 'freedom of speech' until the receivers can actually grasp the issues?
I can't see how making a child uncomfortable is constructive in the teaching of anything, and doesn't a parent remaining silent just reinforces a sense of helplessness?
In my opinion sexism+helplessness do not make for a free thinker.

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