to have got v. cross with DD (3) or was it actually my fault?

[Undercovamutha]

I have DD (3.5) and DS (8mo). DD has been obsessed with cuddling and playing with DS ever since he was born, and now he can play a bit more all she wants to do is play with him. It is lovely that she loves him so much and she is pretty good with him apart from the normal issues (constant invasion of his personal space, taking his toys off him for allegedly helpful purposes etc). But every now and again she does something really quite bizarrely silly and rough with him (like suddenly shake him really hard for no apparent reason). This has happened a handful of times, and DS has never been hurt.

Today, I left DS in his activity centre (one of those Leapfrog things), with DD in the room, and popped up stairs to put our coats away and get a change of clothes for DD. I heard DS crying and shouted down to DD to ask her what was going on. No answer from DD so I rushed downstairs and found that DD had wrapped her toy measuring tape round DS's neck (4 times!), and was pulling one end of it. I grabbed DD and moved her out the way, uncoiled tape from DS's neck, really shouted at DD that she had been very mean and silly and sent her to her room, and gave DS a cuddle.

When DD came back down I calmly explained why what she had done was wrong and dangerous, and she said she knew she was hurting him but just wanted to measure his head .

So anyway, what I was wondering is, was IBU to get very cross with DD (especially as she told me unprompted that she knew she was hurting him), or was it actually my fault for leaving them in the room together alone for a minute or two?

I dont think its unreasonable to be cross, she did wrong and knew it. I have a travel cot put up in the dining room which I use as a playpen if I need to go upstairs, I put some toys in it and leave my 9 month old in there for 10 mins as and when I need. I have two older ones and have had too many near misses to leave her on the floor when Im not in the room!

Don't blame yourself. But its not your dd's fault either. Consider it a lesson learnt. I don't think it will have done your dd any harm to see you very cross about this when she did something silly that could have hurt her baby brother so badly. Poor you, what a horrible experience.

I dont think you particularly overreacted at all.
You cant watch them every second of the day, so dont blame yourself for leaving them alone together either.
It will have done your DD good to realise that you were very cross for her doing this as she will realise hopefully that it was actually quite dangerous.

Fernie - I leave DS in the activity centre thing for the very reason that DD can't try to squash him / pick him up etc. The one time he was in his cot and I caught her taking her music box in to put throw in his cot for him to play with, so not sure the playpen would even provide 100% safety! The strange thing is is that 99% of the time she is fine, she just seems to go a bit mad now and again.

YANBU,

that must have really scared you!

I have 16mnths between ds and dd, ive never thought twice about leaving them to pop upstairs, when she was small id put her in the travel cot or swing but now shes moving i just leave them to it, luckily the worst ive had was them BOTH colouring my walls in! little angels, its so nice seeing them work together!

ahh I have just realized what a playcentre is I thought you meant a playgym on the floor lol.

If it makes you feel any better my older daughter stuck the end of a pair of sunglasses into my sons eye when he was three months and made his eye bleed, i turned around to see a trickle of blood running down his cheek!. I have never been so terrified. They seem to find new and unusual ways to harm each other everyday now they are 5 and 3!

If it makes you feel better DS1 was 4 at time i had just had DS2 - so couple weeks old.

I put DS2 on the bed whilst i went for a shower - put pillows all around him so he wasnt going anywhere. Came back in to find DS1 had put a pillow over his head

I shouted lots as well but he never did it again

How terrifying for you - but that sounds like a normal morning in my house

DS1 is a similar age to your DD and DS2 is 1 tomorrow and I think I would (and have) reacted in a similar way to you when DS1 has been doing something stupid to DS2 - even though DS1 wasn't really aware that what he was doing was dangerous iyswim.

I also suffer with the constant invasion of DS2's space (including DS1 climbing in his cot first thing in the morning to 'play' with him) and the removing toys because 'DS2 doesn't want to play with that mummy'. He also does a fine line in removing DS2's dummy 'because he isn't crying mummy' cue DS2 starting to scream because he hasn't got his dummy Drives me mad and I feel so sorry for DS2 as he is constantly pulling DS1s hair pushing DS1 away but DS1 will NOT get the message!!

Sorry - bit of a rant there but you touched on a sore subject there with me!

your fault.

She's too young to comprehend him as anywhere near human. He's moving furniture to her. Therefore you cannot leave them alone.

I had the same age gap. 3 year olds can be amazingly perceptive and astoundingly stupid all in the same day.

I've always found it a miracle that my DT's survived the first year. 3 year gap with my DD and she would re-arrange them if they looked uncomfortable, try and do medical procedures on them. She also went through a stage of measuring strangling them!

I think you are right to tell her off. She needs to learn the boundaries.

Oh poor you- what a horrible experience. I agree with everyone else- it's one of those things that isn't anyone's fault as such. Even the lovliest 3 year old can't be trusted not to have complete lapses in empathy now and then- she was probably thinking of him as a rather uncooperative object to be measured at her pleasure rather than a person like her who feels pain and distress. That's so normal at that age, I think. So is feeling ambivalent about baby siblings, both loving them and finding them annoying or sometimes getting jealous and cross. And also completely normal and acceptable for you to get very cross with her for doing something so dangerous. She needs to know it was a complete no no and be reminded that babies are not toys and that it matters when they feel pain.

It's absolutely understandable that you left them alone together for a few moments as well but I personally would not do so again for a little while! fernie's playpen idea sounds good or maybe just take one of them up with you. When you are ready to try leaving them together again I would clarify the rules with your daughter very clearly and firmly in advance.

Oh Lordy! DC2 is due in 5 weeks (DS will be 2.9) and I thought I had all the things I needed to worry about covered...

Now I have DS battering/killing DD to add to the list!!

This all seemed like such a good idea 9 months ago!

I always wonder about the leaving them on their own thing. Until fairly recently I haven't, but they enjoy playing together so much (DS loves the attention and DD loves the playmate) that I started to feel like I was harming their relationship by trying to keep them seperate whenever I had to pop out of a room for 2 secs. And tbh, I'd removed al the 'little' toys out of the living room, and with DS being in the activity centre, I had presumed that nothing could happen!!!!

Ceebee - I think we have spoken about our DCs on another thread. It is AMAZING how similar they are!

with the activity centre if it is one that spins in circles be prepared for her to start playing roundabouts, my youngest looks like shes on a spin cycle sometimes. Luckily she is as insane as the other two so enjoys it, I am sure many other babies wouldnt!

O poor you what a shock its perfectly normal to react the way you did... Iv 19months between my boys and it can get dangerous at any stage even when your in the same room, But maybe hide the measuring tapes and any other long ropey types incase she decides to remeasure any time... I put ds2 in his high chair and leave ds1 free when i go for a shower or what not but they both play free when i jus pop to the toilet, they r now 3 and 19 months. Dont beat yourself, jus put it down as a lesson learned