to not understand how someone brought up...

[NickNemo]

... in an unbelievably privileged environment and who is currently living a lifestyle that is far beyond the means of the everyday man-on-street, can even begin to understand what people who can barely make ends meet go through in real life?

I am talking about you, David Cameron!

AIBU? I probably am!

thesecondcoming, all that you say might be true. It doesn't change the fact that to suggest that someone cannot understand "real" people (and therefore is not fit to govern the country) solely because he is posh and wealthy and has posh and wealthy friends is bollox.

It seems to me that everyone who talks about "real" people really means "people like me".

I do agree that you dont have to have been in a particular situation to have empathy for those who ARE in that situation.

I do however think that the changes needed to be made to help vulnerable people/those living in poverty, etc, if they had been there themselves.

It doesn't have to be about willingness either

But youn know, the kids from the localprivate used to walk through my estate and get stoned,I know people back home who would spit on tories if they dared bang on their doors (I am not saying that's OK)

You do need some understanding of what the reality is, or at the very least advisors who can tell you that it happens becuase of X and Y - a sense of alienation rather than aspiration, acceptance of adequacy over achievement etc (am thinking of a small part of the dependency choosing section of society now)

If you ahve those people and crucially listen to them you will be OK

If you don't, if you surround yourself with people who only know what you do, then you are stuffed. And that really dioesextend to all groups- I wouldn't want an all white / black / male / female/ NT / disabled Government either.

You also need to have a level of acceptance from those estates. My guess is that a lot of the rise in BNP'sfortunes is people turning away from labour and not even aconsidering Tories as that is simply a no-no for them.

That can be managed, with a little bit of innovation in who you choose to afdvise you,and to represent those more alienated communities- but I remain to be convinced the Tories will care much about that.

As it happens,I think it is as important to have some priveledged people as some under priveledged- it's representation that matters, not individuals.

A man I know went to school with Prince Charles, he was brought up by nannies in the upstairs of his parents' huge house until he was 4 years old, his parents bought and paid for his first business and home. He now owns a successful chain of toy stores and earns a fortune.

When we met him my mum was a single parent of a 17YO and a 9YO, she had just had her home in a rough part of Glasgow repossessed because my coke head father had not paid the mortgage for months which none of us knew.

None of this mattered to the man in question and he is quite possibly one of the most under-standing, sympathetic and level minded people I have ever met. He may never have been in our situation but he has an understanding of what it must be like!

So don't judge a book by it's cover, I know nothing about DC and don't particularly want to as I think politics in this country are pretty fecked but at the end of teh day you can't judge someone just because of their job and yes that is reverse snobbery!

I do not understand how anyone can who would like to abolish benefits can possibly be perceived as "getting it".

The benefits system is hugely flawed, but it's the introduction of that, the national health system, and council housing (that was once available) that has been part of being a compassionate, democratic country in the last 75 years.

The very fact that DC (and pretty much every Tory from Thatcher onwards) thinks that someone in need is automatically lacking, needs to work harder/try harder/suck it up, shows that he not only doesn't understand, he has no compassion.

and yes, he has experience of life and suffering, but there are plenty who have had similar experiences with the added back-drop of grinding poverty and no obvious way out.

The interesting thing is that if you go back far enough, in theory the rich used to patronise the poor, so that they made sure they at least had something to get by on. It was a terrible system, but what I would class as Old Tories at least understood the duty of those who have to those to have not. Oh, and as to T Blair, I bitterly regret the hours I volunteered to help get him into power, only to discover that he was tainted by the Thatcher blue afterall.

There would be a little more equity, imo, if we were to follow the tenet "from each, according to his means, to each, according to his needs". I might have paraphrased slightly, but as an ideology it's not a bad place to start.

My favourite quotation from DC:

"Milton Keynes looked almost inviting"

(The Oxford Journal, Sept 24, 2003)

But that's a different argument though - if you do not like DC because you think his policies are flawed or he has failed to understand what the country needs, then by any means do not vote for him. That's hardly controversial.

But saying that you should not vote for DC because his Dad was rich is not acceptable in a society that wants to be meritocratic/democratic. Then you open yourself up to the BNP's arguments: do not vote for XYZ because they are the black/Muslim/Jewish/not White English (or whatever).

No matter what I can't help thinking a person who pulled themselves up through poverty and 'made it' in politics would be a better PM, all being equal.

Really posie? I know several people who are self-made and pulled themselves up through poverty but their politics would make most peoples hair stand on end regards benefits etc, the thoughts being if they can drag themselves up then everyone else can as well..

LBOF - I totally agree with you there! Of the people I know who have worked their arses to pull themselves out of poverty not one of them would countenance the idea that benefits provide an essential safety net for the most vulnerable members of society.

If I had a $ for everytime someone (my DH included ) said to me that if they could sort themselves out so should everyone else I'd be sitting on a yacht in the caribean!

But for all of the self made idiots who have less compassion there are many that have more understanding about what it is like to be poor. All things being equal would have to include education, which is lacking in all those 'if I can do it....' types.

And for all the inherited money idiots who have less compassion (don't like this word in this context as it sounds condescending but trying to echo your post) there are many, who may not have first hand knowledge of being poor, but still acknowledge it must suck and want to help improve things as much as possible.

True LBOF, thanks for the echo!!!