to challenge this person...

[DuelingFanjo]

Lunch time conversation with workmates and one starts talking about a pub which he said is 'full of coke heads'.

Him: Yeah, I was walking near there last week and a car pulls over with two black men in it who ask me where the pub is, I mean it's such a druggy pub.

Me: what's the relevance of their colour?

Him: Well you know what I mean.

Me: Not really, what do you mean?

Him: well they were black, it's just the same as me saying 'two Irish men'

Me: no it's not. Black is not a country or a race. Would you have described them as 'two white men' if they had been white.

Him: well no, because I am white. Of course I would mention their colour because they are a different colour to me.

Me: but how is it relevent to the context of the story?

Him: Oh F**k off, you know what I mean. They were dodgy looking.

Me: why not say 'two dodgy looking men pulled up' then?

Him: well that's what I meant.

I know he was basically saying that they looked like drug dealers because they were black, though he denied it.

Isn't it just racism? He was really put out.

Yeah a bit.

Personally wouldn't have given him as much stick as you did but hey ho, thats just me. [wuss emotion]

YANBU
it's casual racism, which is ingrained in many people who would genuinely be horrified if you suggested they were racist. And yes, you were right to challenge him. The fact that he got defensive speaks volumes.

aww diddums, he is "put out"

the silly twat should think before opening his stoopid gob...

good for you

"I know he was basically saying that they looked like drug dealers because they were black"

And why do you think that.......?

Meh. People say stupid stuff.

I guess I know because of his past conversations where he's been 'a bit' racist. Am getting fed up with it and thought I should challeng him.

Good for you. I hate that sort of ignorance.

Good for you DF!

It does sound like you were out for an argument.

so he shouldnt of said it but I dont see it cause for a row.

Hmm, I am someone who challenges racism, but I am not sure that there was a direct link between black/drug dealer in that sentence.

I might have said something like, I hope you didnt mean to imply that they were drug dealers because they were black?

then if he fell into the trap and admitted he did, I would have blasted him with both barrels.

or he might have just said God no, they were just black, thats all I meant.

YABU, Fanjo. All black people look like dodgy drug dealers:

dodgy

definitely dodgy

My dealer

call the cops

lock up your children

someone arrest that dealer

there's no hope

Oh, and me (vaguely middle-ish class professional woman). Definitely dodgy.

I think you were brilliant. Well done for challenging him, you do not sound in the slightest like you were out for a ruck, what a ridiculous thing to say. Far too many people make that kind of assumption about black people - it is the same as assuming that all Asians are extremist Muslim terrorists, and far too few people stand up against it. Your colleague was clearly being both racist and an utterly brainless moron, and you were right to challenge that.

DuelingFanjo, I can totally see your point but I can also see the point of your workmate. He was using it to 'describe' a situation. Yeah, there might have been some stereotypical bullshit thrown in for good measure or there might not have been. But it's not a crime to describe a situation and people in it.

A friend of mine told me that her boyfriend (who was black) and her brother were having a conversation about drugs. Her brother (who was white) said 'You must be the only black man I know that doesn't take drugs'

People with always generalise.

Agree with Lollopops - I have a friend who tried to tell me who the new boss was at a work do - described his suit - his shoes etc - Then it clicked to me - ''You mean the only black guy in the room lol''

Almost racist not to be able to say someones' black/asain etc like its somthing to be ashamed of!

I would have no problem using Black as an identifier, so if there was one black person in the room and attempts to describe him by his clothes, hair, height etc were somehow not successful then I would use colour as to describe them but I wouldn't use it as the first thing. I don't think I have ever had to.

I think there's a difference between, for example, the police issuing a description and using black/white as an identifier and me using black as an identifier. My workmate was clearly making a suggestion that them being black meant they were dodgy looking, in my opinion.

My sister used to say that she never noticed a person's colour which I thought was very unlikely. I have always said that being white if a person of a different colour walks into the room then of course it is likely to be the first thing I notice about them.

YANBU

good on you.

mrsmerryhenry

YABADQ

I think as someone said earlier the key is when defensiveness kicks in. I've said some stupid things in my time, but when I've been challenged I have thought a bit and agreed that what I said was ill considered and although my intention wasn't discriminatory, I can't actually modify my behaviour if it never gets raised as an issue.

I also have no problem with identifying someone by their colour or ethnicity, but, as Fanjo said, in this incident the intention was clearly to make a derogatory statement about the nature of being black.

What a prick you work with, Fanjo.