To tell the local probation office the community service offenders were not working today but having a jolly?

[ToGrassOrNotToGrass]

Ok, i have name changed so as not to be outed in case someone might know me.

I am a probation officer. I am on maternity leave.

I went to the local Zoo today, and as i arrived the local community service mini bus pulled in at 1pm with a group of offenders.

We paid £20 to get in for DH and I (DD free as a toddler). We took about half hour-45 mins to get to where the offenders were 'working' near the cheatahs, there were about 8 of them, supervised by a female probation worker. They were sweeping leaves and were in our way, they stared at us as we moved past them, refused to move out of our way (they did not know me) luckily I was not intiminated by them as I work with them most of the time. The supervisor did not recognise me, not surprising as I work in the office, she works out of the office.

Two of the offenders were when we first got to were they were, vaguely sweeping some leaves from the path, of sorts. The others were sort of hanging around looking at the animals there, near us, laughing and joking, throwing leaves at each other. The supervisor was joking with another offender, both standing around, there was no authority there, no direction of the offenders and their work.

As we walked around, so did the offenders, picking up their wheelbarrow and moving to a different location every 20 mins or so, after doing actually doing anything where they were. They got in our way as we tried to see the cheatahs as they were looking too, DH had to ask at several intervals for them to move aside so we could pass to get to our destination. They did, after the first lot of sweeping, no work that we could see, one pile of leaves. hardly anything considering the amount there was on the floor. They were clearly enjoying looking at the animals and having a good time, as good a time as us. Then, as we walked back to the car, they were all ambling back to their bus (3pm), one of them said to the supervisor 'are we finished for the day yet' and she said 'not yet, we can't get away with leaving this early, we will wait in the bus for a bit'.

I was getting more and more annoyed as we walked around, as they were potentially quite intimidating, swearing and joking with each other, doing the minimum work possible.

That i guess is to be expected, but the supervisor should have been doing more to well supervise them, to demonstrate publically that they were working hard, that she had some control of the situation.

They were not dressed appropriately for the work, no welly boots, no coats, gloves etc and it was cold. I am also aware, whether rightly or wrongly that they are now meant to wear reflective jackets, they were not and there was no distinction between them and the supervisor, DH had to ask me who it was as he did not know.

DH said he would have been happy to sweep some leaves for 1 hour or so in return for a free trip to the Zoo.

My issues are:
We paid to do, and see, pretty much the same as them, when they should have been working hard, or at least be being encouraged to work.
I feel that the public need to see visibly that offenders are indeed making reparation. They were not.
They were not learning new skills, or being rehabilitated, unless getting in the way of paying members of the public to observe cheatahs counts.
The supervisor should have been working with them, and working to get them motivated instead of standing around chatting with them.
I could have been another member of the public, or a judge, or MP, or other prominant person who would have been even more angry about it and had far more authority to do something much more drastic about it.
I could have been someone who would take the lack of work by offenders to the press, which would not be good.

I am thinking of contacting their line manager and letting them know what I saw.

AIBU to do this? Should I wind my neck in and let them get on with it? Or would you want to know that your taxes are being pee'd away on offenders doing what they like and having a good time.
Sorry, long.

I think you are on maternity leave and should be relaxing with your family, you are not being paid to "deal" with this so I would wait for the crap that will no doubt be piled onto you when you are being paid.

i agree it was badly supervised. I do take issue with the public humilation aspect of unpaid work though as as oyu know, offenders can refuse to do it and hten face a very short jail sentence in stead at great cost to us all..
AM suprised as a probation officer you are still calling it " community service" - how long have you been off? 5 years?

why do you presume you will be intimidated?

i think this is crap and a journo tbh

AND

( rant soon over) who says the purpose of the sentence was rehabilitation - it might just have been to punish them by taking time away from them

i called it community service, as the actual name used varies from area to area and if I use the correct name we refer to it as, it might out the area I am in, so I chose to use the generic old fashioned term that most lay people still know it by,

I am not saying they should be highlighted as criminals either, but that does not mean the work they should be doing should not be meaningful. I personally do not agree with the reflective jackets, but with any group of people, whether volunteers, paid workers, criminals doing unpaid work to make reparation to their community, there is normally an identified supervising worker, and the group should never be intimidating. I agree they could refuse, but most offenders know community service is a doddle, hence they do it instead. They would also, as has been the case in my own experiences of working with commnunity service offenders, get much more satisfaction by working productively for 5-7 hours instead of hanging around. Often, they need to feel needed and like they have skills, and that is what they should be doing.

And you are right millymollymoo, i should be relaxing on ML, its difficult to switch off though!

i disagree its a doddle and I disagree the name varies - its been that since 2005

anway - do what you want - its your mat leave.

i can assure you, this is legitimate, I am a long serving member of MN, and I am asking a genuine question about whether it would be a good idea to contact the line manager who manages the team to let them know.

Swearing, throwing leaves and hanging around in the way on walkways, and being stared at as you walk past, is in fact quite intimidating.

The ethos I work with, relating to CS or whatever you wish to call it right this second (as it will change again next week) is that CS is firstly reparation to the community, and secondly to provide opportunity for rehabilitation, to learn new skills, hence the reason they do a H&S certificate, the cahnce to do food hygeine certs, maths and english support, opportunities (allegedly) to do NVQs or work towards etc,

I have seen the local 'CS' team have its name changed 5 times since I started work with them, in 2002.

And it is now, in our local area, not called anything even close to CS/CP/ECP or whatever, although the public still call it CS, as they probably always will

you should have complained about them while you were at the zoo

interruptkid it is not meant to be a doddle, but in our area for sure, it is. The offenders know for example that there are more offenders on orders for this than places, so they turn up and get 'stood down' on a regular basis, until the end of the 12 month period, where they would have 'done' say 10 hours as they get credited with half hour for turning up and being sent home again as there is no space for them. They get to look at bloody Cheatahs while pretending to sweep some leaves. How is that NOT a doddle?

eldonAve I would have, but DH felt that perhaps it would be better to have a quiet word with my colleague/their line manager.

I do think it would be worth writing to the Zoo also, just to let them know what I observed.

I have however interruptedkid been having a little chuckle to myself that you think I am a journo. I know that, for example DM journos do not have the best grammar in the world, but surely my writing style is a bit crap for even a crap journo? so I shall be honoured that I might pass as one!!!

Hmmm. I'm a bit yeahbutnobut abut this one. Half of me wants to be all outraged that the offenders were having a good time when they're supposed to be being punished.

The other half of me thinks - meh - they've got to be there, so they might as well have a laugh at the same time...

But I wouldn't report them, no. I can't see why you're so bothered when you're off work.

I think you should get a life and worry about your own family instead of worrying about a group of blokes sweeping leaves up because they have to do their hours. They are already being punished by being there and not at home or work so i think you should cut them some slack and mind your own business.

I'm with the OP on this one. she is, in a way, minding her own business as it's her profession.

I'd complain. But only because I am unable to clock-off even when on mat leave. I'd report it once and then leave it. Not my place to follow up - and I'd feel I'd done my bit.

But I fully appreciate lots of people would not want to get involved.

If you feel strongly OP then do something or it'll niggle. If you think you'll be over it by Monday then don't bother.

But one of big differences is about choice.

OP, you chose to go to the zoo that day, if you had wanted to go to the park instead, you could have done that. If you wanted to sit on the grass and look at the monkeys, you could have.

It may have looked like they were all having fun, but doing community service means that (to an extent) their freedom is curtailed. They did not have a choice about the activity they were involved in, the did not have a choice about going there in a bus, they did not have a choice about the time they arrived and left, they did not have a choice about who they went with.

Their "service" may indeed have been a doddle, but as a probation officer, you surely have some compassion?

Rather than report it with specifics, is there anyone that you could raise it with in a different way - just say that you were out and concerned at what you saw, so they could send an undercover person out to check on the supervisor and team and see that it is all OK?

I think I might have a quiet word with the supervisor's supervisor - it seems, from what you said, that she was the one not doing her job properly. Presumably, she should have been directing them, and making sure that they were working. The CSOs took advantage of her lack of authority.

But after I'd done that, I'd relax, put it out my mind, and enjoy the rest of my mat leave.

Fuck me! No shackles

You want to be careful where you post that Orm - you might get some very interesting offers!!!

For what it's worth, I think that it is very unpleasant and rude to tell someone to 'Get a life..' when they express concern about something.

One person's 'life' is not separate from the rest of society, and I think it is good when people are prepared not only to see what is going on around them, but to care about it and to do something when necessary. The alternative is turning a blind eye to bad behaviour, or to other problems - but the risk is that if everyone is minding their own business, who is going to help YOU when you need help?

If these young offenders go away with the idea that community service is a doddle, involving no work, and messing around at the zoo, how is this going to deter them from offending again? Would the people on this thread who have said that the OP should mind her own business be happy to bear the consequences, if one of the young offenders decides to offend again, and nicks their car or graffitis their house?

I'd be concerned if I saw this, too. Doesn't exactly reassure the public that community service is beneficial.