To buy Halal meat, or not buy Halal meat?

[FimbleHobbs]

I need opinions and facts please - we have a student staying with us as a long term (paying) house guest.

Hes 19, first time away from home (Saudi Arabia) and speaks very little english.

We discovered when he arrives that he only eats halal food. Our town does not have a halal butcher so at the weekend we did a 40 mile round trip to buy a halal chicken. Other than that we have given him vegetarian food, which he has eaten happily although not with the gusto that he ate the chicken with!

I don't really mind the hassle of serving halal meat once or twice a week (have room in freezer to stock up so wouldn't mean lots of driving to other town).

BUT - I am not sure about the ethical side of halal meat - I have read a little bit (wiki/google) and there is a lot of opposition to the method, saying it is really cruel. I have never seen a chicken slaughtered either way so don't really know. I just wondered if anyone had any opinions or useful information to help me make my mind up?

NB I should maybe add that DH is all for whatever makes our guest happy and sod the principles(mainly because he wants to spend the rent money on a new gadget!!)

halal meat isn't cruel at all, its done with a v sharp knife so very quick. there are some which stun them first aslong as it doesn't kill them by stunning, but makes them only like unconsious then still cuts them properly it's considered halal by many people, there are dif opinions so u can check with him does he only eat the unstunned hmc ones or if he is okay with normal hfa meat, if u personally feel happier with that?
anyway its up to you if you just want to make vegetarian food for him he will be able to eat it no problem and he could have meat when he goes out to eat or anything. just don't bring non halal meat and give it to him as that would be soo very rude and out of order. but if you feel you have a major problem with the meat just give him vegetarian. although personally id say yabu to consider it cruel, as its not really. also would wonder if you have a really big problem with the meat slaughtering method do you never eat in any indian restuarant, take away or anything as majority of them will all be halal meat..

Chickens killed the halal method don't undergo the terrifying conveyor belt that most chickens face, the system seems to be a lot calmer and thinks more about the animals welfare. Yes, when it comes down to it, the same method is used, but the stress that the poor chickens go through in abatoirs is disgusting.

although because the heart is pumping, the blood loss is so rapid it does make the animal lose conciousness within seconds.

I think that's a good point that whilst unconcious, surely the pain wouldn't register. I'd be more concerned abotu the number of animals that miss stunning, or regain conciousness then bleed out slowly though if you are going to compare the methods.

I'd never buy Halal (ritually slaughtered) meat for ethical reasons.

I remember a while ago a muslim cleric was being asked why they still insist on Halal, given that since the Koran was written, there are modern, humane methods, and his answer was that when Mohammed wrote the Koran, he knew in advance all of the scientific advances that would be made and did not think they were relevant.

Islam, eh? can't argue with the logic

Mumblechum, that's rather rude.

I still reckon that in a large halal producer the conveyer belt effect would come into play as well. The amount of animals we are talking about means bulk slaughter as well. it's not like there are only 5 muslim/jewish people in the UK, it's not a cottage industry.

You may not follow the logic mumblechum, but if you believed that a deity was all seeing and all knowing, it makes perfect sense that they can see what is coming in the future.

But at what point do you take on board that, actually, now there are less barbaric ways of killing an animal and maybe you should put the Koran to one side for a minute and look at how things have moved on in the last 1500 years?

Seaglass - you wrote "the approved method of slaughter is to stun the animal with a captive bolt (big electric shock) before slitting its throat"

But captive bolt and big electric shocks are two different things!?!

A captive bolt gun shoots a captive bolt (ie one that is attached to the gun) out at high speed to knock the animal out. Electric shocks shock them. You wrote the two as if they are the same thing which is inaccurate.

My father was the manager of the local abattoir and was required to allow halal killing every so often on the premises. Speaking as someone who oversaw the slaughter of animals every day - he thought it was barbaric.

I think the point is that you don't, mumblechum. That's kind of the point of religion. It's hard enough for some religions to put aside their beliefs in order to adhere to the law, let alone to be kind to an animal.

I personally would like the practice of Halal meat production to be made illegal, in much the same way that certain practices in pig production have now been outlawed.

Until Allah takes it on board. Which I presume muslims believe he did in the first place. You're suggesting that muslims should dismiss some of Allah's teaching because they are outdated. "Sorry Allah, I know you said we should eat halal meat, but there are better ways of doing it now, so we'll just ignore that bit from now on. It's not de rigeur."

I suspect that regardless of the method of dispatch, what really makes the difference is the time and care they take to do it. IE generally an animal killed in a large factory-type slaughterhouse will be less considered than in a smaller concern.

lol mumblechum i doubt that is what he would have said because mohammed salallahu alayhi wa salam did not "write the Quran"
If you want to make a point at least try to get it right

This is why the add a message button on every post is suh a sill idea IMO.

Goldensnitch, Seaglass did address that point further on in the thread.

Yes, the thread moved on while I was writing my post...

As ImSoNotTelling says, that's the point of religion.
Most religions are basically: this book is what God says is right, and you have to do what the book tells you to get into heaven. These are the rules until God informs us otherwise.
It's fine to disagree all you want, but to suggest that they lack logic for not questioning their beliefs and their God's motives, doesn't make sense.

Didn't address this point though

I am a bit confused about this bit "With the conventional UK approved method, although the animal was unconcious, the pain registered for minutes."

Surely if the animal was unconscious, it doens't matter if the pain is registering in the brain, as the animal is unconscious and so can't feel it.

That always happens to me too - I can never type fast enough.

I am going to go and take my add message soap box somewhere else, sorry

fimble if you're iffy about halal meat, why not serve halal fish occasionally instead.

Back to OP.

You have a paying guest who has requested halal meat.

If you have a problem with the ethics, then you can perhaps ask him to buy and cook his own.

But you aren´t thinking of not serving him halal food, areyou?

My previous post came not as someone who is defending her fathers job by the way. I hate the b@stard and haven't seen him in 13 years. He beat me, verbally abused me and used to think it was funny to take me to work with him and make me watch slaughters at 8/9/10 years of age.

Still, nothing I saw made me think the animal suffered and I still eat meat.

I'm not sure about the unconscious pain thing either.
Does being unconscious mean you don't feel pain? I thought if you registered pain (blood pressure right up or however they record it) then they could still feel it if unconscious - but be paralysed so they can't respond to it.

If a person is unconscious they can't feel stuff though. That's how we do surgery. Although anaesthetic is different to electric shock or whatever... But if someone is unconscious and gets a kicking they don't remember feeling it AFAIK