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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be living in sin and get annoyed that everyone has a point of view of this when

49 replies

midsummereve · 29/10/2009 21:30

the saying is if its not broke dont fix it,please give me your views

OP posts:
Fibilou · 29/10/2009 22:13

DH and I didn't live together before we got married as I didn't want to do it but I couldn't give a toss what anyone wants to do and would think it highly rude to question someone elses choice

Heated · 29/10/2009 22:26

An maverick colleague got married in his lunch hour after 20+ yrs together with his partner - it was cheaper than doing the legal documentation. It had no emotional value to them, it was purely to protect the other and their child. What prompted it was his cousin died whilst working abroad, assumed everything would go to his partner and children and his brother made a claim on his estate, meaning his bereaved partner and kids were tens of thousands of pounds worse off as they had to pay him off.

nula · 29/10/2009 22:27

Heated I have thought of that but have decided that us splitting up is more likely than sudden death.

thesecondcocking · 29/10/2009 22:33

i think we should marry-i owned my house for 10 years before dp moved in,i have one child from a previous relationship who is almost 15 and has no contact with her father.We have one child together,my pension and the allowance from it is all going to my first kid-my will states the house will go to my daughter via my sister (to sell/rent out) so that she has the funds to raise my dd1.
I will not sign my house into joint names even though dp is paying the morgage (via a ransfer to my account-not joint!)
i feel i need to protect dd1-dp has a rich family and dd2 will inherit. unless he marries me i can't guarantee that my children would be raised together in manchester (where my family and friends are and where dd1 goes to school)
i have been advised to make a proper will,i don't know where to fucking START!

LadyMuck · 29/10/2009 22:45

Nula, at least you have been upfront with your dp and clear as to why you don't want to marry - they know where they stand, and why. I suspect that similar concerns lead some men into a marriage-avoidance exercise, but they're not always as upfront about it. So long as both partners know where they stand then that's fine. I always assume that women who have children without getting married are clued up as to the consequences on death or separation, and find it sad that so many are not.

LadyMuck · 29/10/2009 22:48

Thesecondcocking, you need to talk to a solicitor in terms of drafting a will. They will be able to guide you through the particular issues in your case. I think it would be money well spent to be honest.

nula · 29/10/2009 22:51

ladymuck thank you for getting my point as so few do

thesecondcocking · 29/10/2009 23:16

i think so too-although if we just got married then i wouldn't be as worried to be honest...

nula · 29/10/2009 23:26

thesecondcocking does he want to get married?

thesecondcocking · 29/10/2009 23:32

hmmmmmm, that's the six million dollar question! yes and no...

BunnyLebowski · 29/10/2009 23:43

This is something DP and I struggle with on a regular basis!

We've been together for 8 years (since freshers week bless! Although I was a mature student mwahhahaha) and we have our dd and we're happy as the proverbial pigs in muck.

Even my Irish catholic family don't see us as 'living in sin' and they most certainly don't view dd as any less of a gc than my married (to a catholic spaniard) sister's dd.

I have this urge to get married. I want me, DP and dd to have the same surname (she has his). I want to be able to call him my husband rather than my rather juvenile sounding 'boyfriend' or even worse 'partner' ).

And although I claim I don't want to have a big wedding and be the centre of attention the idea of a laid-back, casual do with me still looking shit-hot really appeals .

I want to stand up in front of my family and friends and declare my love and commitment to DP.

He has hinted a few timed this year in a kind of 'wait and see' way so you never know!

diddl · 30/10/2009 07:47

I do agree with "if it isn´t broke.."

But I also don´t see that getting married will break a perfectly good relationship.

I wanted to have the legally standing of a wife 6 for our children to automatically be legally recognised as my husbands without him having to sign papers declaring it so.

emsyj · 30/10/2009 11:19

OK a few legal points....

In your will, you can name a guardian. This nomination is perfectly legally valid. If there is a surviving parent with parental responsibility, they will be jointly responsible along with the appointed guardian for the child. I am not a family lawyer, so I don't know what significance the role of the guardian would have, but the appointment stands. It is not the case, for example, that if mum nominates Mr A and dad nominates Mrs B, then mum dies, that mum's nomination fails because dad survives, and then Mrs B becomes guardian when dad dies. When mum dies, Mr A's appointment is valid. You would need to check out what his rights would be. I imagine they would be subordinate to those of dad, but that's just a guess.

Re: Inheritance Tax - there is a thing called spouse exemption. Any gift you leave to a spouse in your will, or which passes to them via survivorship (see below) is not liable to inheritance tax.

Re: joint bank accounts etc - it isn't easier to access a deceased spouse's account than a deceased unmarried partner's account - the issue is whether the account is held as joint tenants. Property held by two people as joint tenants passes outside the will by the law of survivorship. So, if you have a joint bank account, you can simply present the death certificate to the bank and they will scrub off the deceased's name and you can carry on using it as normal. This applies whether you were married to the deceased or they were your partner/brother/ friend/grandad or whatever. If it's a sole name bank account, its contents are part of the deceased's estate and the surviving spouse does not have an automatic right to access funds (although most banks will provide a cheque for funeral expenses before the estate starts to be administered and before a grant of representation has been issued - this is because funeral expenses are the first priority debt of the estate).

There are clear differences between the way married couples and cohabiting couples are treated when they split. If you are living with someone and are not married, you should take specific legal advice on what your position would be if you split or one of you died, particularly if you own property together. Be clear about whether your home is held as joint tenants or tenants in common, what you would get from a will (make a will!!!!) and whether the financial contributions you have been making to the household would be recognised.

Here endeth the lesson!

stakethroughtheheartofgold · 30/10/2009 11:27

i have never wanted to get married, have never once in my life planned my imaginary wedding, as far as i was concerned my personal life was personal - nobody else's business. BUT after yorkiegirl(i think it was?)'s husband died she very eloquently explained how things would have been very different for her had she not been married. that persuaded me (to a degree) that on a purely practical basis we probably should consider it (together 16 years, no sign of either of us having had enough).

i would be tempted to do it in lunch hour but as soon as inlaws found out would be wailing and gnashing of teeth and that's what's putting me off. and the "keeping everyone else happy" thing is what equally would put me off arranging a bigger wedding. so we haven't done anything about it.

stakethroughtheheartofgold · 30/10/2009 11:28

oh btw i understand that it is possible to arrange things legally so that it would be similar to being married but is all too much hassle

emsyj · 30/10/2009 11:32

You could just quietly get married, lodge the marriage certificate along with your wills at the solicitors, and never tell anyone stakethroughtheheart? Who would find out? If, for you, it is a legal formality to help the other person if one of you should die, then treat is in the same way as you would an appointment with your solicitor to discuss your will - as something personal, administrative and nobody else's business. You can ask the registry office if they could supply witnesses - nobody needs to know if you aren't interested in having a wedding.

NB Not advocating either cohabitation or marriage particularly - I lived with DH for 5 years before we married. I DID want a wedding, so we had one, but the marriage itself was motivated mainly by practical considerations and the wish for us all to have the same name when we have children (first on the way).

scottishmummy · 30/10/2009 11:35

love "livin in sin" such deliciously exotic phrase.also like "livin over the broom"

if it suits you-great. marriage doesnt necessarily validate a relationship.

dont know why anyone gets their drawers in a twist about someone else relationship

MrsChemist · 30/10/2009 11:44

I read in a paper yesterday (The Metro, I think) that they are considering giving more rights to unmarried couples who have been living together because people living together and not being married is perfectly acceptable and it's outdated for only married couples to have inheritance rights etc.

Yep, was the Metro

MrsChemist · 30/10/2009 11:46

Oh and OP, YANBU. I would tell others who pass judgement that you like "living in sin" thankyouverymuch

TheDevilEatsBabies · 30/10/2009 12:21

yanbu: it's noone else's business!

and you can sort out your wills as everyone has said to make sure it's all sorted when you die.

I wouldn't worry about it (unlike when i accidentally told our associate minister that i was now living with BF and felt very tiny! )(but that's just me and my insecurities)

talking of insecurities: just tell them that at least you know he's with you because he wants to be and not because he has to be by law

JesusChristOtterStar · 30/10/2009 12:49

emsyj its statements like yours that rile me the most tbh

'get married in secret' 'no one need know'

we dont want to be married - like it like it IS

if it were a religious or cutural choice no one would say that

' you could read the qur'an / eat meat/ worship buddah/ visit the pope in private'

stakethroughtheheartofgold · 30/10/2009 12:57

but emsyj's response was to me and my circumstances jcos.

theyoungvisiter · 30/10/2009 13:02

of course you're not being unreasonable - nobody's business but your own.

And living in sin is SUCH a great phrase, I always used it before DP and I got married, it made our humdrum domestic life sound so much more exciting than it really was!

Likewise having a child "out of wedlock". How exotic.

Quite surprised that anyone has a view on it though -could it be they are just worried about your interests?

There are financial differences in being married, and wives generally get a better deal on divorce than do partners in the same boat. If they are simply trying to let you know about your legal rights then they are not being unreasonable. However this only needs saying once, and sin has nowt to do with it.

marenmj · 30/10/2009 15:57

'Living in sin is not a phrase i have heard used since 1982.'

lol

DH and I lived together for five years before we married. When we announced our engagement to the family it was fine. When my dad got wind that we were planning the wedding for a year later he offered us $500 to just go to Vegas and "get it over with".

The concept of living in sin is very much alive with some people.

Oh, and I was born in 1982, so am not quite elderly.

We married legally because, as immigrants, it makes our lives exponentially easier; and culturally because we didn't consider a wedding to be 'ours'. a Wedding belongs to the parents and grannies and the wider community - it was for them.

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