to ban my exp from having the children.......

[Quadrophenia]

if he can't ensure their safety??

I am not a loopy, bonkers, health and safety wrap kids in cotton wool kind of mum. However i have four children with my ex p and he insist on driving them up and down the dual carriageway squashed into three seats, no boosters in the back of his car sharing seatbelts (a fiesta). he recently sold a bigger car that he couldn't afford to run. now strictly speaking his car has enough seats for one in the fron and three in the back...but his new fiancee insists on coming with him to pick up and drop off (hour journey along said dual carriageway). We have discussed my concerns and he assured me that he would drop them off and pick them up without her to ensure they have a seat each but low and behold tonight when they turned up they all piled out of the back....When i calmly asked him why he had broken our agreement he became verbally abusive, swearing and shotuing at me in front of the children....So am i being unreasonable in preventing him from driving my kids around in this manner...

YANBU and he is an idiot to put his children at risk. His fiancee doesn't need to be in the car when the children are, surely, if it means they are not travelling legally and safely.

Is it possible for him to take 2 children at a time so they have 1 night a week each at their dad's? I know that doesn't give you any child-free time though, but it might be a workable and safer solution for now.

YAabsolutelyNBU. However, I wonder why the fiancee appears to insit on making the journey too? Could she be feeling insecure that you have a link with your ex-p that she will never be really a part of? If so is there some way that you could reassure her that she has nothing to worry about with respect to you being a threat to her?

I would though also wonder how do they manage with such a small car plus four children if they go out on the weekend whilst the children are in his care? I assume they don't just sit in the house the whole time?

Don't block him from seeing his children, but as others have said I'd make sure he can see them safely, i.e. preferably without having him driving them somewhere. Has he ever perhaps seen videos of what happens to "child" crash test dummies in the scenario you describe? Maybe he just doesn't understand/realise/take it seriously?

No, YANBU. His behaviour is irresponsible and illegal. I'm all in favour of dads getting access to their kids, but the kids should have their own seats with seat belt, plus car seats/ boosters as age appropriate.

I would insist he only have them if they are travelling legally in the car and refuse access if he doesn't comply.

He is putting them at risk unnecessarily.
Different if just 3 kids and you just didn't like his partner being there.

Just thought I'd post this link which outlines the situation legally.

It sounds as though it could cost him a £500 fine plus higer insurance premiums...

Thanks for all your responses, some really valid and helpful points have been made. His finacee is very insecure he has told me as such but she will not talk to me and he has to have some kind of relationship with me I am his children's mother. Am so fed up of them both thinking I am being unreasonable, when all iwant is for them both to undertsnad that i have to trust them to look after my children properly. he loves his children, and is a good dad so why he puts them in this position i do not know, its not even as if its for a short period of time...its a long journey to be unrestrained correctly for.
The two children each night is worth considering, am not bothered if I don't get kid free time, but I would feel sad that they are being seperated in this manner but certainly it is a way of ensuring they are safe...the ridiculous thing though is that if he just left her at home it could be resolved...they have two cars so for trips out etc they could just use them both.

There's your solution then! You could tell your ex (through gritted teeth if you like!) that his new partner is always welcome but that for the safety of your children it will be necessary for her to follow on in her own car.

That way you are not peeing him off by excluding her or making it look like she is the problem (although you could point out in a roundabout way that many mums would kick up a fuss at the idea of their DC having so much contact with a new partner), but are merely appealing, mother to father, for a sensible, workable solution to the obvious dangers that he is putting your children at and the risk he is taking from a Police perspective.

YA so NBU

This is the sort of behaviour I would expect from my Ex (in fact I can quite foresee something of this nature with him in future as he has a 6 seater car, into which our 2 DC, him, his skanky girlfriend and her 3 kids clearly will not all fit legally...I can guarantee he will try though!)

What is it with these total fuckwits who think they know better, & compromise their childrens safety/wellbeing just for the sake of making life easier for themselves, or avoiding a row with their new partners?!

I certainly dont think you should do the drop offs, he needs to make an arrangement - either he does the journey alone, or they have to go in 2s. Their safety, ateotd, is paramount & has to come well above his feelings possibly being hurt!

ps- I entirely sympathise with the insecure new partner scenario, my Ex has one very similar who has previously told him I am not to turn up to any events involving the DC if he is there & has had screaming f-ing & cursing arguments with him on every occasion I have done so....

Personally I'd try to work on the girlfriend a bit. It may not be easy but try to get her to realise that you are not a threat to their relationship, but you want to ensure that your ex-p can retain a good relationship with his children. She is likely to be part of your children's lives for a long time yet and she is likely to have a big influence over your ex-p, so getting her on side will make life easier for you. You may also need to consider that she and your ex-p may have children together in the future which will be half-siblings of your own children and it will help in that case if, hard as it may be, you can get a good understanding with her.

How I would handle it is as follows:

The problem is that he is not keeping them safe in the car. So you say to him that he cannot take the children in the car unless they are all in appropriate child seats. This means if he chooses to carry on behaving irresponsibly he will not be able to have the children overnight anymore as he has chosen to live far away enough that it requires a car journey. Then you follow through with that. If he cannot abide by the law and keep his children safe in the car then he can't take them in the car anymore. He can come and see them or take them to his on the bus or train but he can't take them in the car and it is his problem because it is his behaviour which has caused it. If he can't manage this then you go to mediation who will tell him you are not unreasonable to assert that your chidlren need to be in car seats in the car.