to wish people would treat their children when they have head lice?

[beansmum]

ds has had head lice three times in the last month. Each time I get rid of them all with disgusting shampoo stuff and lots of combing and each time I send him back to school and he catches them again. SO annoying.

I asked the teacher if she would mind sending a note out to the parents telling them that someone in the class had them (i.e ds) and asking them to check their kids but she says there is no point as nobody will actually do it.

there is no point to this rant but I am really really tired of the stupid things and wish people would deal with them. I know ds would probably get them again anyway but it's just ALL the time. 3 times this month is ridiculous. Isn't it? Or is it normal?

It is easy to have them, to do a cursory comb through, and not find anything. I know this from personal expeience.

At a time in my life when I had no children I had no reason to suspect I had headlice. I went to the doctor as I had itching on the back of my neck and my shoulders and a rash. Funnily enough the itching wasnt in my scalp. I had asked my husband and another female relative to look in my hair, they found nothing. The doctor said it was a reaction to one of the lotions I was putting in my hair, possibly styling mousse or conditioner. He told me to wash my hair with very plain shampoo and use nothing else.

This went on for a while, then one day I found something suspicious in my hairbrush. I thought at first it was a small insect. It then occurred to me that it might be headlice, I bought over the counter treatment, treated all my immediate family. Result: no more itching on the neck or rash on the shoulders.

Since the children joined us, we have had an infestation, and it took me quite a lot of careful combing, wiping each sweep of the comb on tissue paper, and looking at suspicious specks with a magnifying glass in good fluorescent light to identify them. We used the malathion twice, and now comb with conditioner, and nitty gritty comb, and spray before school with nitty gritty repellant lotion.

It is really easy to do the combing half arsed and not find anything then live in complacency. It is easy to get someone to look in your hair and find nothing unless the special conditioner, comb, wipe, inspect regime is used. But you have to keep on top of it as it feels vile when you get them yourself, and the itching DID keep me awake at night!

So do everyone a favour and get the comb and conditioner out, even if there are no symptoms, or you havent seen anything.

I don't panic or get stressed when I find them but I DO deal with them straight away. I'm sick of getting them from my son going to work scratching, it's embarrassing. If you leave them for a week you've infected everyone else AGAIN! He's fed up with being treated for nits all the time too, just because of other parents who can't be bothered to deal with it properly.

I would support excluding a child from school til they got rid of the nits if they were a child who constantly had them to force the parent to deal with it. Harsh I know, but how else can we get rid of the problem?

oi, yappy, nittty gritty combs in party bags was MY idea, I did an AIBU on it (and changed my name to what it still is now)

great minds, eh

i think even with a free nitty gritty comb, some parents are too bloody lazy and disinterested to tackle the problem

PeedOffWithNits lol I haven't been on here for years so didn't see your post, but I think it's a great idea - it's either that or spray them all as they come in the party!

I have been giving this matter a lot of thought overnight. I looked at it from all perspectives, tried to be detached about it etc. But I kept coming back to what I had learned as a psychology student about behaviour. The following is what I concluded.

1. I was reminded of the ever present nit problem when I read this. This prompted me to have a good thorough comb through and check.

therefore reminders and graphic descriptions lead to action

1. Mumsnet has real power and lots of connections.
2. Not everyone is on mumsnet.
3. Most people with kids watch telly.
4. I dont have time to take this on but I know there are many on here that can.

I think a television campaign highlighting the need for checking, showing close ups of lice/nits, and a demonstration, maybe by a school nurse on TV of the best nit busting techniques needed to rid them.

How do we get this? Well Im not sure exactly. NHS/Government etc need persuading to back advertising, maybe pharmaceutical companies might do this to sell their lotions, failing this, could we do a mumsnet fundraising thing to buy some advertising space? Could we befriend people in the media to give their expertise free of charge?

Anyone work in sales or marketing or campaigning that might have the skills to do this?

Another small thing we could all do is put links to nit busting info or even this thread on signatures on all the forums we go on. Thats something we can do free of charge.

Alright, what do you think? Anyone out there feeling dynamic?

But why would the government want to spend money (which they are extremely short of I understand) on a public health campaign about something that causes no major harm or threat?

I do agree that education about the best way to deal with nits is no bad thing - I learnt about wet combing and nit busting from links on mumsnet years ago (and I'm talking 7-8 years ago). I am much more aware of the lifecycle of the head louse etc, etc.

But as I have said repeatedly on this thread, and no-one has convinced me otherwise, they are nothing more than a nuisance, and it is mainly squeamish people who have a problem with it.

Apparently all of our beds are teeming with bed bugs, but how many of us actually do anything about it? (I'm sure many of you on here probably do lol!). I refer you back to one of the (only 4) complications of head lice, as defined by the NHS:

"Anxiety, distress, and stigma in people who do not understand that the condition is benign and does not indicate substandard hygiene or adverse social circumstances."

I suggest many of you fall into this category.

Sorry, my point about bedbugs is that you can't see them, so they aren't as easy to be squeamish about.

I don't think you mean bedbugs. You can see bedbugs. If I found bedbugs in my bed then I would do something to get rid of them.
Do you mean dust-mites.

I think most people are 'squeamish' about things which feed off their blood. Some people are also allergic to them. It can cause huge discomfort to some people. Bites can become infected. There is also the question of whether they can transmit disease.
Infestations of anything which feeds off you isn't a nice thought.
Do you have pets? Are you as relaxed about fleas?

But there is no evidence that anyone has shown me that people are allergic to them, or their bites get infected, or they transmit diseases. THAT IS MY POINT.

If any of these things were true, then I would not be having this discussion.

And OK, yes, I do mean dust mites, or anything that is too small for the human eye to see but is present in every day life.

And no, I don't have pets, and I wouldn't be happy about fleas, but then as far as I know they can have the effects you describe above (allergic reaction, infected bites etc).

It feels like everyone is wilfully misunderstanding my argument. No-one has yet given me any reason for the hysteria shown here by some people.

I can see where youre coming from brassick, and indeed no one has actually shown any clinical evidence as to their being harmful. But Im sure that in the very young they could be harmful and it is possible that they could be passed on to babies. If they feed off your blood, how many would you need to have to cause anaemia? I know this can be an issue in badly infested puppies for instance.

But the majority of parents (not all) must feel strongly enough about repeated infestations judging by the number of people who agree with the original poster. So given that sufficient people on this forum are annoyed by repeated infestations due to a minority who do not treat, why dont they take some form of action instead of just grumbling?

Also the point I was trying to make was its not only the education in how to de-louse thats needed, but it needs to be kept on top of. People need to be reminded to do it, hence maybe images in the media showing how unpleasant these things are. In common with many, as soon as I see a close up picture of one, Im reminded to keep up our regular checks or even add another one in.

So brassick, you think no solution to this problem is needed. I would disagree if it is a problem to so many families. If no Government support is forthcoming, then a more creative alternative is needed. Can anyone think of how to make it more salient to the people who lapse checking their kids hair? The letters home dont help do they?

The blood loss is insignificant unless you are anaemic according to this www.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PHTM/hlice/blood-feed-calculator.htm

From the reading I have done today it seems that the cure is worse than the disease:

www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Homepest/headlice.htm

I now wish I hadnt used the malathion on my children. I cant believe that they give it so freely in Boots as part of the minor illness prescribing scheme. This is presumably because its cheaper than something like Hedrin which has no organophosphates in.

I have read articles which state in third world countries secondary infections are common and the scratching in severe infestations can lead to impetigo if the skin is broken and bacteria enter.

alysonpeaches, if you read my post, I didn't say that no education should be given, I said that the government are not going to pay for a major campaign.

Whenever I talk to people about this, I always extol the "bug busting" method - ie wet combing every fourth day for 2 weeks. Indeed that is the method I used on my dds when they were smaller (and I worked part time, and their social lives were not so hectic). However, that is just not practical with a 10 year old and a 12 year old who have after school activities, homework and a mum who works full time. So I now use Hedrin, or more recently a product called Nyla, which I can't find any mention of anywhere, but which I get in Boots.

As far as I understand it, these are non-pesticide treatments, and seem to me the best alternative to the wet combing method.

However, I still maintain that the reaction of most people is over the top, and you will never see me boil washing bedding, or putting things in plastic bags.

I tried to suggest to my sons's school that we had a specific day that everyone was asked to treat their children/or check for headlice, then again a week later. If this was done by all the schools and nurseries then you would, I'm sure, get rid of most of the nits. The problem would be those parents who just wouldn't participate.

Schools could give away those Nitty Gritty combs to every child, and remind the children to remind their parents to do it.

I think the idea of a massive poster of a head louse would remind people just what it is on their heads.

I think there is a misunderstanding that we are all hysterical about this, we're not, just fed up with being re-infested all the time. The argument that there is no medical reason to get rid of them just doesn't wash, to knowingly let your children go to school infested with lice is irresponsible.

I agree that boil washing bedding is uneccessary, ditto plastic bags, however brassick you have stated that you only treat lice when you happen to have both the time and the inclination and that you are "resigned" to them. This is what I have an issue with because this decision impacts negatively on other people.

If I knew that by my behaviour I was putting other children in danger, then that would be irresponsible.

And as I have stated many times, I do treat nits, in fact I have spent 1.5 hours tonight doing just that. But I don't have 1.5 hours x 3 (me, dd1, dd2) x 5 times over 2 weeks to give to this; I have much better things to do with my time. So I will treat when I can, I will follow this week's treatment up next week, as recommended by the treatment (which is called NYDA, not Nyla - I got that wrong)

But I won't rush to do it...

Yappy, I like the idea of a massive picture of a headlouse, maybe on the door as the parents walk into school/out of school to keep it fresh in their minds.

I really dont think wet combing is that effective though. As a for instance, today I washed my hair in the shower, came out of the shower put conditioner on, combed through and examined each sweep. I found one or two white bits which could have been nits or dandruff, I couldnt decide, but no evidence of lice. I used a nitty gritty comb. Tonight at bath time, I was ready to do all the kids, and whilst they were playing in the bath, I ran the nitty gritty comb through my dry hair with no lotion nor anything on it. I found a large live louse. So I went over and over again with the comb. No more live ones but something that could have been nit cases. I have put Hedrin on, I have malathion and hedrin in from a previous outbreak, but having used malathion about a month ago and being aware its a pesticide, Im reluctant to use it again.

If you read this:
www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/330/7505/1423
you will see that the BMJ finds Hedrin more effective than Malathion. It also has less side effects as its not a pesticide. So Im prompted to ask myself, why, when you go for a free prescription of lotion do they usually give you I need to actually see my GP and ask him for it. It will be all about cost I expect.

Anyhow, back to the nit check. I went through all my four children's hair with conditioner and the nitty gritty, wiping each swipe of the comb on tissue paper and examining it (DH assisted). I didnt find anything on the kids using this method. They were all wailing though, except DS who has a crew cut!

My rather rambling point is this: its entirely possible to go through the conditioner comb method, find nothing, but still have lice. Thats why we think they keep coming back, they arent always detected.

So what's the answer? There isnt one I guess.

alysonpeaches, can I just say that I appreciate your thoughtful and informative posts on this subject.

You're so right Alysonpeaches, I've dry combed and wet combed and found nothing, then the next day found a coupld of big ones. Then after putting the stuff on found loads.

Brassick it sounds to me, if you always find your children always have headlice, that you might be better off combing every 3/4 days to get rid of them completely, otherwise you never really get rid of them if you leave it too long. Just a thought. I know it's a pain, and that's what we're all moaning about, but we're all after a time when we're free of them.

Brassick thanks, I respect your opinions and find your perspective on this interesting. Yappy, thats reassuring, its not just me then!

Why now? Why all of a sudden is this problem so much worse than it was in the 1960s, 70s, 80s? It cant just be resistance to pesticides? There must be another variable we aren't considering. It is definitely worse than when I grew up in the 60s, I never had them and didnt know anyone who did. I remember a boy being off school and coming back with his head shaved though. No idea why. There was one large family who it was rumoured had "bugs" but that was just kids being cruel. Short cuts were fashionable in the 60s for girls as well as boys. Girls that had long hair I remember were in a minority and always wore it well tied back, not just with an elastic or ribbon, but lashed down at the sides with hair slides etc.

Or was it because children did less group work and more independent work, therefore had their heads together less? Interestingly enough, there were many fewer brands of shampoo available in the 60s and conditioner was unheard of. I never saw any conditioner until the mid 70s. Lots of hair lacquer though! and mums and nans had their hair permed, set and sprayed so it was almost like a helmet! Or was it something to do with how we dress or wash our laundry?

Anybody add anything to that?

Perhaps we could invoke the Public Health Act 1875. How would you feel about that brassick? The following is a quote from an article in Bridlington ~Free Press which I found when googling head lice:
Interestingly, the study found that outdated head lice legislation still exists, making it technically illegal to have head lice.

Since the inception of the Public Health Act in 1875 - designed to reduce serious public health threats created by filthy urban living conditions - it has remained the responsibility of the householder to keep their family free of the critters, with prosecution as the ultimate punishment.

that's interesting info alysonpeaches, I wonder how that could be enforced!

I have one theory about the problem of them, my son plays on a ds and his friends all gather round to watch him (and the other way round) and I'm sure that this is when he picks them up. They all get everso close together to see the small screen.

Another reason is that some people just don't view them as anything that needs urgent attention, whereas when I was at school the nit nurse came round and it was shameful to be sent home with nits (I never had them EVER as a child btw).

When I was at school the desks were in rows and there would be a large gap between you and the nearest child. In my son's classroom the desks are so close together that the children's heads are often touching.

Also when I was at school we had the nit nurse...although as a child I was never aware that the nurse was checking for nits - she always used to rake through your hair, check your fingernails and weigh/measure you. It was only as an adult I put two and two together and realised that she was checking for nits... still no idea why she needed to look at my fingernails though!!