aibu NOT to vote tory if they are going to give my mother in law rights over my children!!

[howlatrubymoon]

I cant imagine the rows this would cause in our family!!!!

Surely the parents should be the only ones who ultimatley have care and control of their children.

I agree that if they give up those rights and the child ends up in care then the grandparents should be considered but no more than other close members of family ( and on a case by case basis)

Wailing Ghoshe - I am against this proposal im afraid, that does not mean I am against grandparents!!

Just out of interest if you had the right to see your GC how would you go about it if the mother still refused. If it meant she went to jail would you still want this?

It is heartbreaking to read about but i still feel this law would be wrong and could be abused.

Each situation should be judged individually as they are already.

Made me think. But all in all, I don't think we should legislate. What if there was a divorce, the kids could be sent pillar to post - this weekend to their dad, the next weekend to the inlaws etc. I agree it is better for kids to have a good relationship with their grandparents where pos - but if I think it is not the best thing for them then I should have the right as their mum to decide that.

Maybe they are trying to get the older person votes...

I am not against grandparents.
I am against psychotic mothers who try (and sometimes succeed) to destroy their child's relationship with his/her partner because there is something weird lacking in their own sad little lives.
The reason I refuse to marry dp is precisely because doing so would legitimise our relationship in the eyes of the (Italian) law and would give his evil mother the legal right to see her grand-daughter.

NB She does see her grand-daughter, because I choose to allow this. Not because some law tells me too.

GPs already are considered when removing children. But since (IME) many children who are removed are from families where abuse/neglect has been endemic for generations it's not usually appropriate. There proportion of parents whose children are removed who were in care themselves is very high.

Also in some cases, even if the GPs are safe, it isn't in their interests to live with them due to GPs own relationships with the abusive parent/s. How many people would be willing to never have contact with their own children again, in order to care for their DGCs?

I think that it is best for the children if they have good relationships with the grandchildren PROVIDED that they are not toxic grandparents.

What really bugs me is that the tories only see one model of a family (ie- the nuclear family) although it is refreshing to see them take into account the extended family. They totally refuse to accept the eveolution of the modern family. They are in denial about abusive and toxic circumstances.

Rant over!

I think that grandparents should have rights-I think it appalling that they can be denied contact. Often they find that if DIL divorces their DS and remarried they can't remain a big part of the DCs life-it is so sad.

pisces- I agree that in cases of family break-up when the GPs have previously had frequent contact with the GCs, there should be contact maintained, even if that requires a court order. However in the case where parents have abused their children, and therefore always been kept away and never met their GC, how can it be right or proper that they are automatically given rights to access their GC? They surely have lost any rights they may have had to be GPs?

Am I missing something here? If parents divorce, surely Grandparents can have access through their sons/daughters access?

My ex takes the kids to my ex FIL every couple of weeks. I have never really got on with my inlaws, but would not stop contact. However, it is up to ex-h IMO to arrange the contact between his parents and the children. I would be aghast if I suddenly got a court order demanding access from my ex-inlaws.

I know not every situation is ideal, but surely we should be encouraging parents to keep in touch, and then share contact with grandparents?

Sorry, my brain is a little fuzzled tonight, not sure if that got my point across or not?

I totally think that grandparents should have access rights, its the children that are going to suffer if contact is stopped or decreased following a divorce or split. Yes there are many parents who are good with access like the op but many are not and let their personal differences come in font of the children seeing their grandparents.

Sadly, smokinaces, not everyone works like you and many grandparents are permanently estranged-you read about some dreadful cases.
I don't think that anyone would expect toxic grandparents to have rights-it has to be in the interests of the DCs.

I agree with smokinaces.

If my husband & I split, as far as I´m concerned, he can make sure that his parents see his children.

I'm not sure how this would all work, modern families are more complicated than I feel most politicians understand. I'd be all for GPs having contact rights but thinking about it, if I died I'm not sure I'd want my XP's parents or even XP (one who has never met my children, one who lives 2 mins down the road but rarely bothers, both alcoholics - and XP who has BPD and drinking problem) to automatically be considered first in the queue for caring for the DCs.

I would want them to have access if they chose, as they do now, but I'd also want my DH's parents who have been regularly caring for the DCs during my pregnancy and who spend loads of time with them to have rights too. I'd like all the options to be considered. I'd like all the DCs to stay together but they have different fathers (older 2 are XP's and twins I am pregnant with are DH's).

I'm not sure I'd trust the tories to understand all the complexities given that what they also really want is to financially incentivise marriage and generally believe in 'traditional' families being superior.

The 'rights' would only apply in extreme cases and are more to protect children fromm SS in case of parents being unable to care for them.I am sure no mumsnetter would deny loving/loved grandparents contact with dgc even in case of marital split; that is wicked and verges on abusive.

my mother and stepfather WILL NOT have contact with my children until my children are old enough to gainsay me, should they decide to do so

nobody has the right to make me allow contact, and if such a right were proposed I would fight it

Not even if the alternative was to have them taken away from the family altogether?You sound very hurt.

Agree with greensleeves. There is nothing in tihs world that would make me allow my dc to have contact with my xp's parents, and xp feels the same thankfully.

have not read the article as I have no wish to entertain the nonsense from the daily mail but as a child from a split family, I agree that grandparents form a very important part of a child's life and it is not for either parent to sever that relationship in the event of a divorce. am not saying that ex-inlaws should have guardianship or any parental responsibility but the extended family is greatly undervalued and under appreciated.

I am very hurt pranma and very determined that my children will be protected from them and their poisonous destructive crap. That's my job as their mother.

No cynical attempt on the part of the Tories to scoop up the grey vote is going to override my decision to keep those people apart from my children. I would do just about anything to resist it.

I've experience of this the other way round - when my father re-married and had another child, my Gran (his mother) lost interest in us. When we eventually got to visit her, she'd taken all the photos of us down and replaced them with ones of Dad's 'new' family, stepmother included.

And that's someone who had been, to all intents and purposes, a very proud grandmother.

So it's not as simple as 'poor old devoted grandparents lose out'. People are more complicated than that and every family is different.

(We were eventually reconciled with my Gran, especially after my father divorced my step-mother - think she temporarily went a bit overboard at having a 'good' DIL who didn't argue back. And it was my sister and mother - the exDIL - who fought for my Gran's welfare when she was old and vulnerable and my father and uncle were too selfish to look out for her.)

Sad for you edam what atrocious behaviour on your grandmas part so shallow and superficial who needs people like that in your life they will loose out. Greensleves you should put your children first, fair enough if there are bad grandparents whoose influence will be detrimental in your dc life, but to deny your children access to their granparents is just selfish unless you have a very good reason not to.

pigletmania I am putting them first and I do have very good reasons.

well if you have good reason to Greensleeves fair enough but not if its just a matter of personality clash or things like that

It certainly isn't a personality clash or anything like it - I stuck it out with them for years because extended family matters and I wanted to heal our ruined family

but it just isn't always possible and I don't feel guilty about my decision to cut them out of our lives. It isn't for my convenience (although it has lifted a huge crushing weight from me) - it's because they are an emotional and mental disaster area and I refuse to allow them to hurt my children. Which they would, regularly.

I think the pious black-and-white "your children have a right to see their granparents whether you like it or not" tendency on MN comes from people who have never actually met anyone like my mother. Lucky them.

well fair enough greensleves when they get older and they want to see her. My mum is a bit of a case, though more throgh being alone for 20 years (my dad died) and i am her only daughter so she can get quite negative about people me, my dh, my IL's but she has a good heart and means well, she does suffer depression, apart from that she is a very kind are caring mum and always has been.