Circular arguments used to "detect" trolls and multiple personalities

[loneparent]

I am new to Mumsnet so perhaps this has all be mentioned N million times before. How do the people who claim to know that person X is a troll or is posting using more than one identity actually know that they are. Apart from an IP addresses check, which are easily faked or changed or both, on the Mumsnet server how can people know the truth of what they claim? Do ordinary users have access to the logs generated? I'm not clear what new users brought in by the recent publicity with the PM are making of all this.

I don't care if someone's a troll as long as realistic problems are raised for discussion. Annoys me when they talk a load of shite and get lots of attention though. I've been on MN for 3 years and seen plenty of trolls- they just get on my wick, have they nowt better to do with their lives? Bores me. I was accused of being a troll once in the past as I started 'too many' threads at once and I was actually about it- people soon realised it was a mistake though.

well and truely confused now, but as new MN poster, I found a lovely thread late on Fri night and will continue posting in hope to meet all these lovely people again at another time!

Sod the trolls, who cares. Lots of nice people with similar experiences and outlooks. Glad I joined.

I was accused of being a troll on my first outing - not posting a thread, just challenging a viewpoint. Little did I know that I had challenged one of mumsnet royalty (maam) I was treated really badly, and was very upset. I was new, but that was a sure sign of a Troll apparently. I changenamed and have survived for a few months now.

Stinkypinky that's not v nice. I still have no idea who mumsnet royalty are but everyone has a valid opinion. Hoping for another friday night NICE chat at some point, see you there

Just a short update. It seems as if I was a bit unfair on the Mumsnet bosses. They really do seem to want to give people the benefit of the doubt: it is a few long-term users that are somewhat less keen.

Stinkypinky - what you mention seems very unfriendly but saddly seems to happen in all sorts of on-line communities.

They don't know, there is no way to know.

They are people who don't understand the words 'fact' and 'evidence' or the phrase 'benefit of the doubt'.

There is a lot of gossip-mongering and hysteria about 'trolls' normally the people with the biggest pitchforks and flaming torches are the biggest idiots.

Hmmmm I ma not sure that matters hugely (although the secret santa thingy was horrid). I have learnt a lot from all sorts of threads on here. Some of them may have been started (or added to) by trolls but the generous advice and story sharing has helped a lurker!

If you were going through a tough time and MN was perhaps your only source of support - and someone called troll - would you stop posting? I don't know what I would do. But I can't imagine that a few internet strangers "gossiping" would make a dent in me if I was dealing with a marriage breakup / bereavement / whatever. Though not nice it doesn't compare. Would it be worth abandoning a lifeline?

Genuine question - I haven't been in that situation myself so don't know.

I think I would give up posting if I'd come here for support and not found it, for whatever reason, being accused of trollery might be one. Normally it's not only one person calling 'troll' it is speculation and gossiping over lots of different threads.

ruby - hi

I agree with wukter actually, it can be both and that's part of the problem. Some people come to socialise and some come for support, some for a bit of both.

I see what you are saying curiosity, but I'm sure you ignore gossiping cliques in RL why not on tinternet too? And stick with your own friends.

wukter - I am a terrible prig though! I cannot stand injustice, it enrages me and I have to try very hard to ignore it sometimes, and fail rather often!

If it were about me it would bother me less than if it were about someone else.

ruby - yes, so would I. If it were about someone else I might be inclined to have a rant at the gossip-mongers! lol

Sorry Ruby, I'm not making myself clear.

This site is a community, in a RL community there will be people talking about you, gossiping, disaproving. But you will also have good solid friends who help you through a bad time. In RL you would ignore/confront the whisperers and concentrate on your own network.

wukter - sometimes you don't have a choice though. If there's a large fuss and no proof MNHQ would just block you, partly for your own protection.

In RL you could more easily avoid people you didn't like and hang out with people you do. People can come and find you on here more easily and can invade your own network without too much trouble. What do you do if people get there first - the easiest thing is to just not come back.

biggirlsdontcry thank you - I'm still struggling a bit, in fact I'm going to post on the thread today for a bit of help with some things that are getting me down. It really annoyed me that when I posted some very true and rather lurid things about X that was the point I got all the flack and was accused of trollery.

I dealt with it by posting on some of the topics I usually post on in my changed name ( may not bother to change back now as 100% sure that no one on mumsnet knows me anyway) and reporting the abuse to MN who I think removed one comment.

I did however see a post where someone ws complaining about a fat snoring husband who was totally useless in all respects and did wonder if that might be Mrs X.....

I didn't know MNHQ would block you without proof. If the choice to continue to post is taken out of hands...

I shouldn't really be here but being noisy I wanted to see how the thread I had started was progessing. I now know that almost all the time the folk who cry troll have no evidence whatsoever to support their views. If they can prove they have access to the IP addresses of posters and/or have carried out the standard judicial quality tests to quantify the likelyhood of two messages being from the same person then I might just believe them. Otherwise they will be ignored.

Loneparent, I do not cry troll, but have on occasion gone at a post, but generally I will only say on thread that someone is a troll if it has been confirmed by MNHQ. That is not to say I do not report posters quite frequently, and am generally righ

So I suggest you take some time here to hang around and participate before declaring definitively what you think.

Also, those who do cry troll are not ignored until they can prove definitively a poster is troll. Hence the raging debate about it.

Am I alone in thinking some trolls have excellent imaginations and to feel a little about it?

I've never seen MNHQ pronounce someone to be a troll. I have however seen lots of people accused, lots of subsequent threads containing inaccurate assumptions and information which is then taken on board by other people and tends to snowball.

There's no value in accusing anyone of being a troublemaker or disingenuous in public. All it does is make it harder to uncover someone who really is either of those things. I don't understand why there has to be any 'troll' hunting threads. If you suspect someone of something like that you don't post on their threads and you report your, hopefully well-founded, suspicions to HQ privately. If you want to know how their investigation is going, which is purely only relevant out of curiosity's sake, you can just ask MNHQ privately. Posting a thread about it is entirely pointless (unless your motivation is troublemaking and gossip-mongering or you're not clear on how MN 'works' and do it by mistake) as it's unlikely MNHQ would take any notice of a thread unless it was reported.

Unless somebody uses multiple identities from one computer though, you can't 'prove' they're a troll any more than I can prove that Nick Griffin is an idiot. It's an opinion isn't it.

Nobody can prove whether or not somebody on here is telling the truth, or actually does hold the opinions they say they do.

So saying that only you should only call troll if you have 'proof' is pointless. How could anybody prove that somebody was attention seeking? We're all just sitting here typing - I could be the proverbial Midwest trucker for all anybody can actually prove.

I've seen countless trolls in the years I've been using internet forums but I can't offer any actual concrete proof that they aren't really what they say they are. That's the whole point isn't it - they can say that x thing has happened to them, and often even questioning it makes posters look unsympathetic - or unsupportive if it's MN.

This is a forum, not a court of law. I can say what I think without having to prove it - trolls don't have to prove anything so it cuts both ways.