what's the etiquette re babies on seats?

[Clovissa]

I set off with my 5 week old DS yesterday on our first solo trip. We got on a pretty empty train, I folded the buggy thing and wedged DS nicely on the seat next to mine. He went to sleep. Near London, loads of worker bees got on (though we were out of commuter hours) and pretty much filled up the train. Some were left standing. A man next to us looked rather pointedly at DS slumbering on his seat and I felt I should pick him up and have him on my lap so he could sit down. But I didn't. In my defence, there were two other seats in the carriage with bags on that he could have asked to sit in. And DS was dangerously near feeding time and if I'd woken him up I would have had to breastfeed him surrounded by men (I've only bfed in public a couple of times before and both times have been a bit hectic with DS 'forgetting' how to do it, revealing my nipple to waiters, etc.).

I thought of standing myself, but I must admit, I didn't do that either.

YABU. A 5 week old would have been comfortable in your arms and would have fallen asleep again quite easily. And what's wrong with being a working "bee"? Weren't you one once?

YABU and very unsafe.

OP here, reporting back for upbraiding!

Well, yes, now I think about it, he would have been safer on my lap (I had wedged him on the seat against my bag and his blanket with my finger curled through a loop on his suit). It was a two hour journey though (overland) and my back was aching. I take the safety comments on board.

I like Hando's comment about lots of people traveling free and being entitled to a seat! But like Bucharest, I was programmed taught as a child to always give up my seat to an adult and either stand or sit on my mother's lap. That's why I felt so wrong. I suppose it was the availability of other seats with bags on that aided my conscience - if he had really needed a seat he could easily have asked them to put their bags elsewhere.

Cristina I have nothing against worker bees! Did you take that to be a derogatory term? I don't see it as such. I am still a freelance worker bee myself, baby permitting.

I have a sling, something called a papoozle, but I'm having a terrible time with it. It feels very unsafe and like he could slip out if I made a wrong move. Perhaps a fellow papoozler could help me out here? (it was rated no. 1 on mumsnet no less)...

Next time I think I'll tuck the wrap in the buggy for holding purposes.

I think the bag people should have moved their bags before you moved your baby but tbh a baby that young shouldn't be wedged anywhere imo and you should have held him. I would guess he doesn't weigh very much so holding him in your arms while you are sitting down wouldn't have stressed your back.

He's 13 pounds and I had a c-section so it can be a bit uncomfortable. His safety comes first though so I take your comments about holding him on board. I suppose I didn't see it as unsafe

I had a section too but tbh as long as you are sitting straight I wouldn't have expected it to hurt your back, holding him.

"if he had really needed a seat he could easily have asked them to put their bags elsewhere. "

Hmmm... except it's easier for you to find space on your lap for your baby than to find space for a bag (Assuming they were bigger than a baby).

I'm a fellow papoozler have you been using the belly band with it as I found it much more secure with it .

Bags can go on the floor between your legs.

4andnotout, I do have the belly band, I think perhaps i need to practice a bit, I want him all tucked in, not with his legs hanging down.

He's much bigger than the average bag! And more than a squillion times more beautiful...

Fab I can't really blame my c-section, I've had a pretty brilliant recovery.

YABU. You should have held your baby. Partly because a paying passenger should have been able to sit down and partly because it would have been a lot safer for your baby.

Personally, I'd have left the baby in the buggy and sat or stood near him. Why did you take him out in the first place, unless he was miserable or wanted to be held (in which case a seat would not have been the best place for him)?

I was asked by the train guard to fold the buggy and leave it in a sort of cafe that wasn't being used. He put it behind the bar. I would have preferred to have him in his buggy (which is a lightweight stroller-type thing) because he can lie flat and be strapped in. I did hold him for about the first hour, then lay him down because he was really out for the count and I though he would be more comfortable lying down.

Anyway, all this is immaterial, you're all quite right, it wasn't very safe leaving him on the seat, so I won't do it again .

Gosh, that sounds v unreasonable of the guard on what sounded like a relatively empty non-rush-hour train. Isn't there a spot for a wheelchair or some folding seats where you can keep a buggy on the train (provided a wheelchair user doesn't need it of course)?

When ds was 5 weeks old I'd have done anything to avoid feeding him in public if I could and I'd have put him down too if there was space as I got tired holding him. Also he slept less well when I held him (even in the sling) and I'd have been praying for him to sleep the whole way so I didn't have to feed him in a public place. I did take ds on trips at this age but found it anxiety inducing in the extreme.

If the commuter had asked me to move ds he'd have been faced with a sobbing, wailing hysterical woman as at this point in ds's life I was barely holding things together so perhaps I'm not the most unbiased person to ask this.

However my answer is YANBU but I seem to be in the minority (unsurprisingly)

As 80% of male commuters probably wouldn't offer you a seat on a busy train when you were pregnant or to a woman holding a child or someone with grey hair or someone too young to hold on to the straps, I think we can safely say all bets are off on the courtesy front. You should have pretended to be asleep. That's what they do ;-)

YABU. The rule we apply on trains/buses was if we had paid a fare for our children they have a right to a seat. When they were babies/toddlers and travelling free then we put them on our knee if a fare paying passenger needed it.

The people with bags on seats (usually women over 50) are even more unreasonable.

He would have been so thrilled if your baby had started to cry and couldn't be consoled! I say YANBU. You knew you didn't want to move DS, you thought it was chancy, you know your babies personality and you know how you feel. When you have a baby you just have to get on with it so don't worry about it!

And as for... "A 5 week old would have been comfortable in your arms and would have fallen asleep again quite easily."

You can't make a statement like that! Babies are people and they all have individual responses. At 5 weeks my baby demanded food if she was woken up within half an hour of her next feed because she was disorientated. I couldn't have calmed her down on a commuter train without feeding her because I wouldn't have been able to walk with her so I regard your statement as rather unsympathetic and actually a little meaningless.

If you were both comfortable (and your DS must have been if he was asleep) I don't think you should have moved. I commute into London and I am nearly 8 months pg and the worst people for offering you a seat or showing any courtesy are the businessmen. They will look anywhere so as not to make eye contact, pretend to read their papers/be asleep, barge past you to get on the train etc etc.

I really wouldn't worry about it. You needed the seat more than them.

yabu
baby shouldn't have been taking up a seat and making a paying person stand
(nor should people's bags)

Under that rule the OAP's and their free bus passes should stand to give us younger ones a seat. There's no right to a seat, only a journey.

I don't think so Mellifluous, because the local council pay for the tickets not the bus/train company.
There is no fare for under 5's, although when I did long journeys when mine were under 5 I would buy them a child's ticket and pay for a seat reservation.

Just a thought - maybe he was looking at the baby in a pointed fashion not because he coveted the seat, but because, like several of us on here, he thought it was dubious from a safety standpoint?

Personally, through my two pregnancies and a stint on crutches, I found that the most brazen attempts to beat me to a seat/not offer theirs even when they were in a priority one were all made by women.

Though there were seats with bags on them, i would have picked up ds and put him on my lap as there are paying adults but then thats me.