to think that parents say one thing and do another when it comes to formal learning for 5 year olds

[PollyParanoia]

On all threads about the Cambridge review (which suggests that formal learning should not start until 6 ie y2), the majority of posters wholeheartedly agree, pointing to Scandinavia etc. And in theory, I do too.
But at the same time, I'm always worrying that my ds is getting "behind" his privately educated contemporaries, people on these boards talk of their dc's advanced reading ages, people say they chose a particular school above another one because their kids got so ahead. One mother was always talking to me about which kid in reception was "bright" because they could read and were on the "top table" and is teaching her 3 yr old dd phonics.
If state schools did postpone formal learning might this be counter-productive if private schools didn't too? Are we really all laid-back enough to chill about our kids not reading until 6, which seems to me to be at odds with what I read about tutors, 11+ exams, ORT reading levels etc, etc?
I don't know am probably living up to my name...

Gracie123 Fri 16-Oct-09 19:55:59 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

"Gracie123 Fri 16-Oct-09 19:55:59 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

children didn't use to start school in sweden until they were 7, but here is the thing:
THEIR PARENTS TAUGHT THEM!!
They could all read and write their names and count etc... because their parents/daycare facilities taught them."

This is not at all what I remember from my own childhood in Sweden. Some of us knew how to write our names and read, but not the majority. The teacher started by teaching the alphabet in Year 1. Where did you get this information that all Swedish children knew how to read when they started school? A quick look at any Swedish textbook from the period should disabuse you.

Our parents taught us lots of things. But the emphasis, in the early years, was on the practical.

I agree that you cannot simply compare literacy levels between different languages. But what one would like to be able to compare is the number of 6yos who have already written themselves off as hopelessly stupid. I would also like to compare the number of children who have any practical skills. Ime most 10yos in this country can't even prepare a simple meal. I find that shocking.

Sorry Cory, I could be wrong. Maybe it depends where you grew up. All my friends from Orkelljunga said that this is how it was for them.

Either way, I agree that the point is that the parents taught the children outside of school. Not necessarily reading and writing, but took an interest in things like cooking and supporting 'informal' learning. My frustration is the number of parents who wait until their child is 10 or 11 yrs old, without having shown the slightest interest in their education, then pack them off to boarding school so that someone else can catch their child up. I'm not anti-private schools, I'm just pro-parents being the best teachers for their children. In my experience most of the kids who we are told have learning difficulties can catch up in a term or so if they are given a little one on one time with an adult each day. It's just a shame that some children don't get that at home.

Well my 5-year-old can unwrap a pizza from the freezer, and can read 'Play' and 'Scene Selection'. He learned neither of these things at school [proud]

Are there actually many schools in reality that "hot house" children? DS1(4) goes to the infant unit of a well known and highly regarded private school which achieves excellent academic results. Its a selective school which assesses and selects the children in the January before the school year starts and so many of them are still 3 at that time. This has resulted in gasps of horror from some people I know.

He can read but that's because he was interested and so I taught him before he started scool. The children are all at very different stages depending on what they did at home/nursery before starting school and they are all learning and progressing well. But they are not what I would call "hot housed" in any way. They spend an enormous amount of time running around and playing but they also learn at the same time. For example they have made bread for harvest festival today, they also went on a sound hunt to find things in the school grounds beginning with "sh" or "ch", they looked at their baby pictures to see how their bodies have grown and they had football training. They have learnt about knights and dragons and have made monster masks.

Surely most schools, whether private or state learn through play?

"school"

you can tell I didn't go to private school

Thanks Sylar, I didn't want to get too defensive of the school I live in, but I agree that I have never been to/visited/worked at a private school that I would have called a 'hot house' for four year olds. In fact the school won't officially take our DS until the year he turns 5. He loves playing with the other children in pre-prep and joining in, and a 21 months he can read quite proficiently, knows his alphabet and can count to 20 (most of the time, we sometimes get confused around 16 )
None of this has anything to do with the school, most of the children in year 2 are not doing that stuff, but I can't believe that he is going to be stunted educationally in anyway because I didn't wait until he 6 to start showing him books.

i have hels my son back a year as he is a feb birthday so he will be 5.5yrs when he starts school. i have done this beacause my bright DS1 was a dec birthday started school at 4.8yrs and struggled for 3 years not academically but socially. He was not ready for full days at school ended up on detention by the october holidys because the teacher had no time to help him cope with a long day and 25 other kids.

this still has an impact on his education now because teachers know him as the terrible child of primary 1,2,and 3.

i will not make that mistake again and would rather keep my kids home longer till they are nearly 6 and put the extra work in with them in regards to academic achievemnet.
i am lucky being in scotland and having the option because of were DS2 and new baby due in feb birthdays lie.

That's terrible raindrop! I can't quite believe that any teacher would put a child on detention at junior school

"But what one would like to be able to compare is the number of 6yos who have already written themselves off as hopelessly stupid. I would also like to compare the number of children who have any practical skills. Ime most 10yos in this country can't even prepare a simple meal. I find that shocking."

I fully agree, but as an argument against early reading, this is really a red herring. There is no reason why this cannot be done as well as reading writing. Maybe more time needs to be dedicated to it, and less time dedicated to the 3rs... but theoretically, they could all be done together.

Incidentally, There are differentiated groups at my DDs school, but I have no idea as to which ones are the highest or the lowest. The names of the groups are so cryptic, there are no clues. My DD hasn't got a clue either, yet she is supposedly G&T!! It can be done - it just takes imagination! The reason why they have no idea as to which one is which is that some groups go off for extended work with one teacher, another group go off for support work with a second teacher, and the third group stay with the teacher... but the teachers can vary. So no child actually knows what the other children are doing at this time, so as they do different work, they have no comparison. It really can be done!

My Mum asked a teacher whether she should teach me to read before I went to school, and she said that I would learn in the wrong way , so my mum didn't. My twin brothers were due just as I started school, and the school had a stupid theory thought that it would be too much disruption in my life and it would turn me against school as I would associate school with getting less parental attention. I hated starting school as the only "new girl". I was put with the slowest children to begin with, because I needed to learn some things from scratch, but soon moved up to be with the top group because I loved learning.

Before I started school I went through a very tantrummy phase; I was a very well behaved child and I think this phase was because I needed the stimulation of education. Some kids need and want to start formal education early.

Maybe it's a london thing, but there are definitely private schools that I would consider hothousey from a young age. Parents of a little girl I know was told at the end of the first term of reception, that she wasn't very good at "dictation". My ds hadn't even started reception at this point (january intake).
I also have to say that selection at 3 is to my mind the very definition of hothousey.
I do agree that comparisons between children are evil esp at this young age, and I hate myself for getting sucked into it.

But selection has to happen at any age - otherwise you are saying that everyone has to work at the same pace. That's frustrating for the majority of children who will either be ahead or behind that pace.
Unless we find out about a child's abilities we can't tailor their education to them and we are failing them and making them dispassionate about learning.
It's not about a child being clever enough to go to the school (usually if you have enough money you can go) it's about finding the most suitable class/teacher/classroom assitant/activity etc... for each child so that they are stimulated and having fun.
AFAIK the selection that happens at 3yo would never affect the selection at 4 or 5 etc... children are evaluated regularly and may change groups several times throughout the year, as well as changing groups throughout the day for different subjects.

I was very anxious and skeptical about reception for my summer-born 4 yr-old but sh absoutley thrives on it and indeed is like a different child - more confident, outgoing, independent. The 'learning through play' seems to be working very well in so much as dd really enjoys her time at school.

I think it is natural to be curious about where you dc is in relation to their peers - the think is not to invest too much in that information. There is no such talk at the school gate that I've heard, but among other, closer friends, I know that one or two are way ahead and another 4yr-old friend of dd's (boy) is reading very fluently (I have actually seen this irl!) - although his school seem well-intentioned they do seem to be struggling to really accommodate him though.

I suspect it would be just too big a change in too many ways to put off school - we would need to totally overhaul and re-organise preschool and daycare options. If the emphasis were not on play, I would be much more concerned. I will be interested to see how the transition to yr one goes.