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...to be considering taking ds (12) to the Holocaust exhibition at the Imperial War Museum

64 replies

preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 19:53

Ds (Y8) has been reading The Boy In Striped Pyjamas in his English class. He's asking me lots of questions about the Nazis and the extermination of the Jews.

Have never been to the exhibition, although I've intended to...never had the nerve -understand it's got a recommended minimum age of 14.

Ds is relatively sensitive and thoughtful, but not overly so imo.

...also he has said "it couldn't happen again, could it?"

...so do I tell him about Rwanda? Screbrenica (sp!)?

WWYD?take him- or leave it for a bit?

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preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 21:17

...also Scootini- we're going to Amsterdam at half term

...we also went in the summer and went past the Anne Frank house but the queue was massive. It might be a goer at this time of year, though!

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StewieGriffinsMom · 15/10/2009 21:22

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choosyfloosy · 15/10/2009 21:24

My honest view (and it's only my view) is that at 11, it is best if he just gets answers to his questions from you... and if you don't know the answers, you look them up together, preferably in a nonfiction book aimed at children.

I think the books that have been mentioned, the films and the exhibitions are just too much at 11. I said on another thread last night that this age, when children are becoming aware of external threats of various kinds, is when they desperately need -not exactly protecting - well, yes, protecting, I suppose, or at least filtering. They need to know IMO that yes, these threats exist, but they are not imminent threats to them, that you know about them and consider them serious but not something they need to worry about right here, right now. And the only way to keep images they can't handle away from them is to keep them away from the images.

From my own experience and some others I've read, I think 14 is a common age for children to start making real mental links between themselves and people in history, and in general to seem a bit more able to deal with it. It's interesting that 14 is the minimum recommended age for the exhibition, and I would take heed of that.

IMO the Anne Frank Hus is a completely different kettle of fish to the IWM.

What about Watership Down? He might be up for that now (the book, please not the film!)

wonderingwondering · 15/10/2009 21:25

If you think Schindler's List is too much, the exhibition definitely will be. It is very harrowing.

I've been to a concentration camp, when I was a teenager, but was still taken aback, as an adult, at the IWM. It is a very valuable exhibition and memorial, but I think too much for any 11 year old. I think at that age they still need some protection - I think the fact that fairly tame films get a 15 rating puts it into perspective.

UndercoverMuseumWorker · 15/10/2009 21:25

LOL I am part of the Education team at the IWM so ask away

The minimum age recommendation is there for several reasons, but mainly to stop parents taking children in without thinking as if it is just any old exhibition as the content is naturally very upsetting. However, it is down to the parent in question if you are bringing him to the museum yourself, you will be with him and you know how much he is capable of understanding and taking in.

The absolutely no children under year 9 is really for school groups.

TheHeadlessWombat · 15/10/2009 21:36

I'm probably having a dumb moment here but what's the connection between the Holocaust and Watership Down?

MillyR · 15/10/2009 21:37

There is a Holocaust museum in Nottingham; DS will go there in year 8 as a school visit. I am presuming it is less harrowing than the IWM exhibition if year 8 are going. That might be an alternative to the IWM if you are not a huge distance from Nottingham.

StewieGriffinsMom · 15/10/2009 21:37

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preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 21:38

Thanks everyone. You've given me plenty to think about.

I'll have a look through the ideas for books you've all given, and the online resources SGM. I'll visit the IWM myself (thanks Undercover!) and we'll take him to Anne Frank Huis in a couple of weeks, and see how it goes...(I went there about ten years ago and found it nearly overwhelming- again, because of the personal...)

choosyfloosy I do take all you've said on board. Tbh I wouldn't have broached the subject with him at all at this age, had school not done it. He asked me to take him to see Boy in Striped Pyjamas in the holidays, but I didn't get round to it

I do think I ought to grasp the nettle now he's asked me- is just a question of degree!

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madlentileater · 15/10/2009 21:39

have you thought about The Silver Sword (orphaned children in occuppied Europe)
also Sandi Toksvig wrote a good book for children about the resistance in Denmark. It sounds like this exhibition would be very harrowing, and there are other ways to find out more. Although I do think the boy in the striped pyjamas relies for it's full impact on the reader understanding what's going on more than the narrator- would not suffice alone to educate someone about the holocaust.

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preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 21:40

MillyR we're about 20 minutes away from the IWM here...so there's no excuse for me not going at least!

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preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 21:44

Just a thought. Have read quite a few comments recently about mn "not being wot it used to be" and other things that are a bit - but all the responses you've given on here have been thoughtful, considered and very, very useful. This is a fantastic resource.

It's warmed the cockles of me heart, it has

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UndercoverMuseumWorker · 15/10/2009 21:46

Yes there is the Beth Shalom Centre in Nottingham who do run Holocaust related sessions for younger students. TBH it's something we're going to have to look at in the not too distant as younger children are studying Anne Frank and there are teachers now who want to gently investigate the subject a bit more with them. At the moment our education service is purely year 9 and above but we get requests for younger groups.

It is a great place to work and it's the only reason I went back to work after dd. It drives me insane but I would hate to leave if it came down to it. I was brought in 10 years ago specifically to work with the Hoocaust exhibition when it opened so it's been my life since then. It's very interesting work.

Stewie we have recruited about 8 members of staff over the last year, it's been crazy! We're too skint to recruit anyone else now though

UndercoverMuseumWorker · 15/10/2009 21:48

Oh goodness, Holocaust not Hoocaust

fluffles · 15/10/2009 21:51

the IWM had a genocide exhibition on the top floor when i was last there which was very powerful and covered rwanda and had an amazing exhibit which just listed all the genocides that had happened and there were hundreds and hundreds that we don't even hear about on the news

LadyEvenstarsCauldren · 15/10/2009 21:51

UCMW, I found it very interesting and so did ds1...we just worked it out it was just before his 8th birthday we came.

UndercoverMuseumWorker · 15/10/2009 21:55

Yes, Crimes Against Humanity. It's still there but has changed location. That one really is for GCSE students and above as the information is presented in a way that is just not really accessible for younger students. More to do with language used and approach than content.

One of my colleagues used to ask a question of the students in his Holocaust teaching session; Do you think this could ever happen again? All the students used to categorically state that no, it could never happen again. He'd then tell them they were wrong and that, at this moment in time it was happening in X and Y and Z... They were always dumbfounded.

Hando · 15/10/2009 21:56

I recommned Anne Franks house to whoever it was that said they were off to Amsterdam soon! It's great and if you've read her diary it's lovely to link her words to the real house. The secret annexe door behind the book shelf, having to duck to get through the door, the steep steps (almost fell down) the posters still on her bedroom wall! Wow!

Also, take the kids to the Amsterdam dungeons, better than London dungeons.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Holocaust exhibition soon at the IWM, haven't been yet though.

girlylala0807 · 15/10/2009 22:12

It was awful,

very well put together but upsetting.

I found the photograph of a dead Iraqi(sp) woman with her dead baby in her arms in another exhibition there upsetting as well.

Is a tough one though. How long do you protect them from the images that enforcewhat they already know iysim

notguilty · 15/10/2009 22:18

(Regular poster, name-changed and can't be assed to change back here).

I probably stand alone with my view. I would take my child if I were you, and will be taking my daughters, the younger of whom is 12, very soon. i think that an education into the reality of the horrors of the holocaust is very important. Life isn't all Santa Claus and Enid Blyton and I've brought my children up to be aware of this. Both girls have watched Schindler's List too, and yes, we have cried and we will no doubt do so at the IWM.

I gather that a few lucky ones from each school in England get taken to Auschwitz in the 6th form. I believe that every child should be taken there, and at a younger age too. Never again should such things be allowed to happen and the key to stopping it imo is education.

I do realise that not everyone would do as I do and this isn't advice, this is just my experience. My daughters are aware, knowledgable and they care, but they are not scarred for life by their experiences.

TheGreatScootini · 15/10/2009 22:21

DH and I went back to the Anne Frank Hus a few years ago, I meant to say, and both wept buckets-but when I was little and went I didnt find it so upsetting-maybe because I couldnt fully understand the wider context of how sad it was and the reasons behind it all etc.
But what it did at that age was make something I had read about 'real' I suppose, and it made me want to learn more.(I ended up doing a history degree in the end and that was what started me off-not that thats got me very far in life since mind I dont use any of my fancy book learnin' in what I do now)

Hope you find the visit worthwhile OP and enjoy Amsterdam

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preciouslillywhite · 15/10/2009 22:28

hmm...

I do see your point notguilty- but the thing that makes me think twice is that my parents were v active in CND/the anti nuclear movement from when I was in my early teens. They thought me and my siblings were old enough to cope with the literature that was always lying round the house, going to meetings, marches etc, but the upshot was I had constant nightmares from the age of about 12 up, and my dsis and db took the opposite approach of Couldn't Care Less...

I know you can argue tis a different kettle of fish (the holocaust is history, the nuclear holocaust was- at that time- a possibility) but I don't know what individual childrens' limits are- not even my own. My folks certainly didn't either!

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scaryteacher · 15/10/2009 22:42

The nuclear holocaust is more of a possibility now than it ever was in the Cold War.

Went to the IWM in the summer with ds. Didn't get to the Holocaust exhibition - am saving that for next year, but did Terrible Trenches and the walk through of a trench. We only had about 4 hours there - we needed so much more.

notguilty · 15/10/2009 22:48

You have soome very fair points Precious. its hard to guage even our own children.

I come from the other end of the scale to you, born of a mum who not so much didn't care but due to ignorance I guess, undiagnosed dyslexia being part of it all, wasn't politically aware, wasn't interested.

However, back in the early 80s I was on many of those CND marches you have spoken of. Just goes to prove how different we all are.

Cheers for reminding me how old I am hun!

mamas12 · 15/10/2009 22:50

YABU he is too young to process that information in such a strong format.

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