Are you guilty of racism against chavs?

[BLEEPyouYOUbleepingBLEEP]

I was listening to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 earlier, and they were talking about how feelings are running high in some white, working class areas where people feel they're being ignored by the government (which some might say is a blessing!)

Jeremy asked, in a totally serious tone 'Should the term chav not be used because it could be considered racist?'

Unfortunately, I was laughing so hard I missed the answer he was given.

So perhaps you could give me the answer, could chavs be considered a race in themselves?

(If you're still not sure what a chav is, just put it into google images...veeery enlightening)

I think certain people like to pretend that it's anti-gypsy term, which suits those people's purposes (to scream 'racist' and think that that amounts to an argument) just fine. Clearly it's not, and the vast majority of those described as chavs are not gypsies or travellers or any other group with special protection under law.

Pikey, OTOH, does refer to gypsies/travellers, and should be avoided for that reason.

Chavs are not a class, nor by definition are they working class.
They a not a race either.

I don't like racists, does that mean I am racist against racists? Silly argument.

its also just a social form of dress and music

a way for teens and pre teens to classify themselves.

ds1 =chav
ds2 = skater
dd = Emo

i feel the pikey point has been totally missed

I dont care if it is racist, it is just horrid. If I heard my daughter using the word chav I would discipline her in the same way as I would if she used a rascist, sexist or any other ist word.

I'm working class, live in a council house and have a staffordshire bull terrier does this make me a chav?

What's pikey? We don't have that in Scotland.

"chavs" is a derogatory colloquialism not a race,therefore not racist

race is identifiable visible characteristics
chav is a debatable specific attire and behaviour

yes 4 - totally - it also means you must be anti social , drink tenants extra and beat your kids up whilst telling them to shut the fuck up crying

pikey is a derogatory term for travellers

an illustration of how its not nice to ue a derogatory term - was the point

In that case, great!!

i am scottish and have heard pikey-we have neds.no chavs

it is a form of discrimination

I don't recon Jeremy Vine made any kind of connection between the term chav and white working class people, apart from it being in a debate about it.

Why I couldn't believe what I heard, was that he was equating the word racism, in all its hideousness in discriminating against people for their biological traits, with the way some people chose to behave and dress. The implication being that once someone introduces the word racism into an argument there is no argument against it and you can't say anything against any 'group' of people.

yes it is discriminatory to apply derogatory terms to people

I think the idea of chavs being a different race is a red herring.

The OED defines chav as:
"a young person of a type characterised by brash and loutish behaviour and the wearing of designer-style clothes (esp. sportswear); usually with connotations of a low social status".

Well young people from all classes and races can be brash, loutish and wear designer sportswear... so the implication is that we only really have a problem with chavs because they are poorer than 'us' and can be safely despised.

And because they are generally white working class, well who cares if we offend and exclude them from the political process.

Go on ladies, put the boot in, you know it will it'll make you feel all warm, superior and smug.

Ah, I see.

I don't wanna be misunderstood on here. For me a chav/ned is not about clothing, it's about behaviour and sometimes the clothing can be like a uniform. I'd never look at someone with a certain dog or certain clothing and judge them. I'd only judge if the behaviour is there too.

Plenty of my friends children wear tracksuits (or whatever) and they are perfectly good kids, polite and nice. I just wanna make it clear that for me, it is not about clothing or council house or dog.

Scottish - do people who are perhaps considered chavs find it a derogatory term? Do they refer to each other as chavs in the same way as goths/metal heads would say they belong to that group? I wasn't at all offended to be called that, I identified with the group.

I hate the term.

DS are always coming out with 'chav' jokes.

When I asked them who the chavs are they named lads they were at primary school with. The same lads who I helped make cakes and heard read. These young men still speak to me politely if I see them in the street.

All are from poorer homes.Some don't have a dad around and many will have struggled at secondary school.

3 of my DS are dyslexic. DH And I paid for specialist tutoring to make sure ours coped, learnt to read, and didn't fail at secondary.
Without money and lots of input from home my 3 many well have been chavs.

But some of this chav hate is about people wanting to keep the working classes in their place. Burberry was fine until the working classes wore it and then it was a case of "How there they? How can we wear this now that the dirty uneducated masses have it?" Apparantly us working classes should know our place and not seek to rise above it.

Middle class snobbery is rife and the working classes are demonised. You only have to look at threads on here, the angst about schools, what if my child comes into contact with a child who is not middle class. Working class teachers not being able to talk properly.

tbh i have a problem with anyone who is brash and loutish, regardless of race, age or colour.....does this make me any-ist?????

I agree pipwererabbit.

it is a form of discrimination

I have no problem with discriminating against people who behave in an anti-social manner.

Although I've noticed many of the 'don't call a chav a chav' brigade are simultaneously quite happy to generalise/discriminate about people from private schools, Eton, etc.

Funny that.

ladymariner - no it means you have a problem with people who are brash and loutish. Chavs refer to more than just being brash and loutish, it is also about being working class which is why I find it offensive.