To think that he shouldn't be forced to play the violin.

[123andaway]

DS2 is 8 and in year 4. Since returning to school after the summer, the whole class of 36 children have started learning the violin (I can only imagine the noise!!!). This is done in lesson time and is compulsory. The school have provided violins, and the children can bring them home to practice.

To start with I was really pleased about this, and thought it would be a wonderful oportunity for DS2. Im musical myself, and get alot of pleasure from playing insturments.

Unfortunately DS2 doesn't appear to have inherited the musical gene! He is really disliking the violin lessons, to the point he's not wanting to go to school on the day they happen. He grudgingly brings the intrument home each week, where it sits and collects dust in a corner (dispite huge amounts of encouragement to practice/show me what he's been learning etc) and then gets grudgingly taken back to school the following week.

AIBU to think that while it's fanastic the children are being given this opportunity, playing an instrument should be something that is done for pleasure and enjoyment, and not something that is forced upon you. Surely if there are half a dozen children like DS2 in the violin class its going to spoil it for the other 30 who really are keen to learn the instrument. WIBU to speak to the teacher, or should I just tell DS its part of school and that he has to get on with it.

Pyrocanthus -- nearish to us, there's this, which runs at weekends. It's a splendid 50p a week plus a registration fee, and seems to teach pretty much every instrument I've ever heard of.

I don't know how they manage to fund it, but it's very successful.

yanbu it needs to be optional

I think it's actually sensible to mention it to the teacher - if you are calm and friendly, not all guns blazing. They need feedback so they can work out if this is actually a good idea or could be counterproductive. After all it must be costing quite a lot.

That looks tremendous, Lancelottie - interesting to see it's a charity - perhaps a personal initiative or a trust?

Maybe the problem is not the violin, but the learning it in a class of 36!

Re-reading your post, maybe it's the "huge amounts of encouragement to practice / show me what he's been learning etc" which are contributing to the problem? Maybe if you backed off a bit he would relax about it and eventually come to enjoy it.

FWIW I think that learning about music and playing a musical instrument is tremendously valuable and teaches loads of transferrable skills (listening, co-operating, contributing to a whole, physical flexibility etc). BUT, it must be quite difficult to actually learn to play the violin in a class of 36, once a week. I would be tempted to treat it like a workshop session, that your DS might or might not get something out of, back of from suggesting he practices at home etc, and see how it goes. After all, if they were playing tambourines and xylophones for an hour a week in school, there would be no emphasis on bringing the instrument home to practise etc - it would just be a fun way of developint musicality.

Pyrocanthus - I suppose the idea with these schemes is that by offering it to everyone, there will be no self-selecting along the lines of "that isn't for me", and you will both enrich the lives of the many and develop a love of music for the future, AND hopefully connect with that one child in 1000 who is prodigiously talented but has no access to music / instruments / lessons.

Absolutely, Bramshott, I'm not knocking the intent, but I just suspect that if it's not really well done and followed up, then the other 999 are going to have minimal enrichment or will be reinforced in their view that it's not for them.

It's very difficult, isn't it, unless resources are unlimited? I suspect communal singing is one of the best places to start. My DDs have never enjoyed it much at school, but on the very rare occasions when they've come into contact with our local music service's singing specialist, who's an absolute child magnet, they've loved it.

Good grief, can't think of a more horrifying prospect than a whole class of 8yos being made to learn the violin - of all instruments - for teacher or pupils!

Teacher must have nerves of steel.

I'd say that forcing the unwilling is never the best way to foster interest in music or learning any other instrument. Sitting through too many Year 4 concerts confirmed my view that the "viledin" (love it!!) should never be made compulsory.

They are not forcing him to learn the violin, just the same as they are not forcing him to learn to read, do PE etc, etc. He just dislikes it.

Perhaps once he gets better at it, he will start to enjoy it.

I think it's great that they learn an instrument in class in yr3-4, mine have done recorder and fife and really enjoyed it. Music is one thing I really can't help them with at all but I would love them to be musical (unlike me) so I'm all for school teaching these things, especially when it's free.

It's good for all children to have the chance of trying an instrument, and it's good for them to learn the many useful skills which come from music, quite apart from music being valuable for its own sake.

But making a whole class try to play the violin for a year is not the way to do it.

Those who take to it well, and practice, would be able to make reasonable progress and gain useful skills.

Those who are not interested, or don't suit the violin, will not gain anything from it.

My DS plays violin, and has done since about Yr2. It's not an easy instrument to play, and needs a lot of correction from the teacher in terms of recognising when you're playing the right note, and getting your posture and bowing correct. DS started in a group of 3, and it was hard enough for the teacher to give each of them the attention. In a whole class, the teacher will not be able to do anything very much with any of them.

So those who would be able to get something out of it won't get much at all. And those who don't like it are just wasting their time making tuneless noises.

If they all have to do something, they'd be better off trying out different instruments, or maybe sticking to tuned percussion so everyone gets at least a basic understanding of notes, rhythm, teamwork, etc

The numbers here are too big - a whole classful & one teacher, it's insane. Of course at least half the class won't do any practice between lessons & the majority of the time in class will be spent sorting out issues with instruments, like tuning & tightening bows etc. Any progress will be so slow it's no wonder he's hating it imo.

The dc's both did something similar in year 4 (it's a good age to start strings), except, they were divided into groups of 4 or 5 which makes a huge difference. Even then we were advised (by the teacher) not to practice at home or they'd get too far ahead.

So I'd definitely stop nagging him to practice & advise him to have as much fun with the instrument in class as he can & to treat the whole thing as a taster. Learning to make music in a group is supposed to be important (no idea why & am slightly sceptical myself), so a 'get on with it' approach is probably the way forward. I'd also tell the teacher he's not enjoying it, and try and find out what they have done with such children in the past, but I doubt it will change much to be honest.

Remember, his antipathy may be more to do with a personality clash with the teacher or the actual teaching arrangement than a dislike of the instrument or music generally - try to get that across to him so he doesn't feel he hates music &/or the violin or is a failure at it which may put him off trying again (maybe on a more appealing instrument) in future.

My DD did the same in her class last term. She could already play the violin due to having lessons with a ratio of 1 teacher to 4 children. The ratio in the extra, whole class lessons was 1 teacher to 30 children. It seemed absolutely pointless; the ones who couldn't play at the beginning still couldn't play at the end. Perhaps someone who works for a school music service will be able to explain that the point is.

I think it's a country wide initiative that all children are given use of an instument and lessons for a year. It will be timetabled as part of their music lessons. The children at my school are given a choice of clarinet or flute.... seems your school got the short straw!

Because of the way these initiatives work, I think it's pointless to ask whether any child can opt out or choose another instrument.

Actually, I think that showing willing, giving it a go and persevering are all valuable lessons in themselves, even if the child never becomes a virtuoso. Someone's already mentioned the tranferable benefits (memory and concentration etc) of learning music and, in my view, having some experience of playing an instrument is just as important for primary children as all the other areas of the curriculum which don't carry an opt-out clause.

Thanks for your messages everyone. I will have a chat with his teacher and let him know how DS2 feels about playing the violin. It is time-tabled into the curriculum, so I think the chances of him being able to opt-out are slim. I guess he's just going to have to get on with it. Im just sad that his introduction to music hasn't been more positive for him.

YABU

Art is not optional, or PE, or maths, or health education. Plenty of children dislike those.

i HATE the way music is sidelined as an "if you really feel like it" activity. Ds1 doesn't like writing, and given that the average adult hardly ever has to write, is it actually necessary that he learns it?

It's a new skill, just like drawing a picture. Some people are better at it than others. He should give it chance.

YAB a bit U

My dd did trumpet last year. The whole year did a brass instument. It was only about 20 mins a week. She did not like it much but some kids really found somthing they loved. They went on to join the brass orchestra.

YANBU - what an appalling idea! ( And yes- the noise ) Poor him. Ridiculous ration and likley to put the kids off for life.

I don't think anyone is saying that music is optional. I think that ideally everyone would be taught, for free, how to play an instrument.

I just don't believe there is any educational value in one person attempting to teach 30 plus children how to play the violin at the same time.

I don't think anyone could teach 30 8 year olds how to throw a pot on a wheel at the same time. It doesn't mean I don't value art.

It is precisely because music is so devalued and under funded that anyone has considered this whole class teaching method to be acceptable.

Yes, ideally, they could choose an instrument.

"the average adult hardly ever has to write"

Eh? Yes they do! Writing is in no way the same kind of skill as playing an instrument.

It's a skill, nontheless.

I last wrote something last Thursday. I have absolutely no need to write at all.

the most I write these days is my signature and DS's names on school slisp

Did they get given a load of violins then? It seems a curious choice.

I think it is great they are getting a chance to learn an instrument but, as others have said, violin is not an easy instrument. My DD started when she was young and still plays but it was her choice. I have always played wind instruments and it is clear to me that violin is much harder.

If you had to try to get a whole class playing something I would have thought the recorder was the obvious choice.