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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

T o let my son chase pigeons

376 replies

mrsruffallo · 02/10/2009 14:19

DS loves chasing flocks of pigeons. Every time we go to the park he and his friends scream with delight as they fly away.
Woman in the park today got very angry and told me that 'pigeons have feelings too' and that IT WAS CRUEL.
Funnily enough there was something along similar lines on CBeebies the other day.
AIBU to think it's just a bit of fun?

OP posts:
sixlostmonkeys · 02/10/2009 15:23

I'm with tabithacat - fair game? let them chase something that fights back - then come back here and report.

people who let kids chase birds = my pet hate.

oh, and there is a difference btw between unavoidable noises/disturbances and 'kids' being allowed or even encouraged to 'chase'

tethersend · 02/10/2009 15:25

This is hilarious.

Are there a lot of vegetarians on this thread?

Because if you object to children chasing pigeons, you must object to eating them (or any other animal), right?

I cannot believe that someone would tell their dc off for chasing pigeons and then hand them a chicken sandwich.

Please tell me this is not the case....?

tethersend · 02/10/2009 15:26

Ahem- eating pigeons, not children. It sounds a bit wrong.

DoingTheBestICan · 02/10/2009 15:26

But surely if the flying rats pigeons were traumatised by lo's chasing them surely they would have learnt to not land on the floor straight away & actually fly away to safety

AMumInScotland · 02/10/2009 15:28

Pigeons choose to live in areas which are full of noise and disruption. They do not display any great degree of fear or trauma when chased by children or dogs, only moving a minimum distance before settling again.

If someone's DS wanted to chase another type of animal, which did seem to be genuinely afraid, then that would be different.

sixlostmonkeys · 02/10/2009 15:28

But surely we are intelligent enough to not encourage children to torment other creatures?

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/10/2009 15:32

I think believing that the pigeons are distressed is anthropomorphising (?sp) a bit. They are birds. They evolved to react to movement, because movement could mean a predator. It is a survival instinct. They react instantly to the movement, presumably realise they are not in danger, they land.

Nature is red in tooth and claw. Small boys are presumably only very pale pink, in the overall scale of pigeon-life ...

Jujubean77 · 02/10/2009 15:33

I can't stand it when children do this - they fly all over the place and it's disruptive. It's like the parent thinks it's a good "game" for their kids or something. It's so not.

BalloonSlayer · 02/10/2009 15:40

Ladyofthebathtup and AMuminScotland, ROFL at "Pigeons choose to live in cities."

Do you think pigeons go to little pigeon estate agencies and sit reading "Pigeon Life" debating with their partners the pros and cons of city versus country life?

"Coo, there's a high fox population in Townyville but a lovely statue in the main square."

Pigeons live where they live presumably because of instinct, or because of being born there, not because of rational choice.

I feel that whether you eat meat or not, kindness to ones fellow creatures is something that we all have a responsibility to teach our DCs. And IMO that starts with discouraging toddlers from pulling cats'/dogs' tails and also discouraging them from chasing flocks of birds to get pleasure from the reaction, which is fear.

AMumInScotland · 02/10/2009 15:44

But they do have a choice to some extent, and they are also the offspring of generations of pigeons which have evolved to be reasonably "happy" in cities. If they were terrified of everything, then they wouldn't breed successfully, and so would not pass on their genes. So those which live there now, whether or not they consciously "choose" to live there, are adapted to city life.

Jamieandhismagictorch · 02/10/2009 15:45

Agree with BalloonSlayer (obviously)

swingsofglory · 02/10/2009 15:47

YANBU I'm another one who would never have dreamt that anyone had a problem with this.

There are loads of pigeons in our local parks, most of which will have been chased by a small child or two and probably a few dogs for good measure. I am yet to see a 'traumatised' one sucking desperately on a fag and clinging on to its branch for dear life...

sixlostmonkeys · 02/10/2009 15:48

here here balloonslayer

sixlostmonkeys · 02/10/2009 15:49

or rather hear hear.......

tethersend · 02/10/2009 15:50

But Balloonslayer, is it not the teensiest bit inconsistent to eat animals whilst teaching dc that it is cruel to chase pigeons???

I am not vegetarian, but just can't get over the high esteem that pigeons are held in by some people who also eat them.

cornsilk · 02/10/2009 15:51

Agree with Jamie. Pigeons are thick. They don't choose to live in crap places, they live where they live. I wouldn't get cross at chidren chasing pigeons at all but I didn't let my ds's do it.

NellyNoNorks · 02/10/2009 15:54

I don't like pigeons and I do like chicken sandwiches (despite having a load of much loved chickens in my parents' menagerie).

However, I really, really don't like seeing children being allowed to chase a living creature that's smaller than they are, even if it is 'for fun' . I wouldn't be cross if I saw other people doing it, but I have stopped my DCs from doing it.

LilyBolero · 02/10/2009 15:55

I teach my kids to be kind to animals. They rescue snails from pavements where they might get trodden on. I don't like them chasing pigeons, less because of the effect on the pigeon, and more because I don't want them to think it is a 'fun game' to chase animals, or to distress them. Whether or not the pigeon is ACTUALLY distressed is a bit irrelevant, it's the enjoyment the kids derive in chasing them that I don't like.

I also tell them not to tease my parents' dog, or to chase next door's cat, or our chickens. If we go to a park with a lake we feed the ducks, not chase them.

So to me it's a question of perception. I want the children to ask 'Am I being kind to this animal?' and for the answer to be yes.

DorotheaPlenticlew · 02/10/2009 15:55

YANBU. A three-year-old running in the general direction of some pigeons is not posing any serious threat to them. They typically fly or flutter out of the way of almost any approach -- simple logic says they're not being "terrorized" every single time.

If someone is jogging in the park and their path takes them towards a flock of pigeons on the path, the pigeons will flutter up and settle down again nearby. Same thing, right? Or is the jogger also being cruel?

Silly to lump it in with behaviour that causes real hurt or trauma, eg pulling wings off flies or etc.

BalloonSlayer · 02/10/2009 15:59

We need to eat to live, this doesn't mean that animals should not be treated as well as possible while they are alive and have the least painful and traumatic death possible.

My DH who is a strict veggie would say that the pro-arguments here are similar to the arguments used by the pro-hunting lobby. ("They are too stupid to be scared," "they are vermin," "They choose to live here...," "If you eat meat you can't object to killing/tormenting animals...")

DH says of the hunt lobby - if you do have to kill an animal - for food or for another reason - it should be done with a heavy heart, not turned into fun.

I would go a step further and say I do not want my DCs getting enjoyment and excitement from causing distress to any other creature.

freename · 02/10/2009 16:01

I don't allow mine to do it (I know they'd like to they get that look on their faces )
but it's more that I'm a pedant about consistency, if I say be respectful to animals it's kinda confusing to laugh at pigeons being chased. That's my theory anyway. Not ready to give them too many grey areas just yet...

slug · 02/10/2009 16:01

The pigeons round our way are fat and overfed. A bit of exercise does them no harm.

tatt · 02/10/2009 16:02

Birds need to eat to get energy to stay alive. If they are chased away from their food they have to eat more to get the energy they used flying away. So it's not a question of whethter the pigeons are terrified or not - it's cruel because it makes it harder for them to survive.

I eat meat but I make an effort to try and buy meat from animals that had a decent life.

My children have chased pigeons and we've talked about why they are being unkind. Unfortunately the little horrors have chased them after that.

It's not in the same league as torturing animals but it is unkind.

LynetteScavo · 02/10/2009 16:04

I've always told my DC's ont to chase pigeions, but it;'s not as if they can't flay away is it.

If it were up to me, the pigeon popluation would be greately reduced...I'm fed up of feathers and pigeon poo everywhere.

Jamieandhismagictorch · 02/10/2009 16:04

Dorothy . No, a jogger is not being deliberately cruel, but a child deliberately chasing a pigeon is getting fun out of frightening it.

A spider having its legs pulled off probably is not in distress, or even pain, but I wouldn't want my child getting enjoyment out of that either.

As Lily said