AIBU to have a word at school tomorrow?

[Hando]

Dd (5) got a little bit upset earlier, she said she didn't want to go to school tomorrow - which she never says.

Upon further quizzing, she says that at the end of lunchtime play she was talkig in the line and got ticked off by the dinner lady. That's fine I explained, she knows they're not supposed to talk in line, she did, she got told off.

However, if they misbehave at playtime or luch time the kids have to do 5 minutes stood up against the wall as punishment time. Dd says that because this happened at the end fo playtime there was no time to do her 5 minutes so the dinner lady has told her she will have to do her 5 mins tomorrow for talking in the line today.

AIBU to be a bit at this method of punishing very young children. I have always believed that punishments for young children should be immediate to have effect. I would never say "no park trip tomorrow" or "no going to xxx's house to play next Friday" as they are so young that amount of time passing renders the punishment pointless.

Especially now as dd has had all this evening to think about it and has gone to bed still a bit stressed. She's quite sensitive and seems to be shattered at the end of the school like just like all the other kids, she doesn't need somthing (however small it seems) to be worrying about. Even if the dinner lady does let them off, she's put the idea in their minds today and upset dd. Am i being a bit pfb ish?

Oh dear . Whilst im also unsure of the merits of making a five year old wait until the following day to be punished ,i think i would of probably not of gone into school about this . I would of explained to my DD that she would have to stand against the wall tomorrow as she had broken the school rule ,however she should spend that 5 minutes thinking of what she might want for christmas . just out of interest did your DD appear traumatised or matter of fact by the experience ?

I only ask becuase often the idea of the punishment is far worse than the reality ,was this the first time she has had to do it ? Now shes an old pro she probably wont ever mention it again .

it seems a bit ott to me..... standing against a wall is very harsh and as a teacher myself that sort of punishment is kept for the kickers, fighters, unkind, hurtful children who repeatedly break the rules. perhaps sending her to the back of the line but standing against a wall..... sounds a bit army / prison like!!!!! What 5 year old doesnt chatter??????? I DID!!!!

I think making a 5 year old stand against a wall for 5 minutes for talking in line is a bit draconian.

I'd be very upset if I found out that my DDs school punishes the children in the manner - whey couldn't she have just been told off for it and not to do it again and leave it at that?

It's wrong in my opinion. They are only 5 after all. I'd have wanted to see what the hadteacher had to say as well if it were my DD.

The deputy telling you that she's sort it might have meant that she had a chat with your child to put the sanction in perspective and explain why the school have that rule. To explain that it was a normal thing within school and that she wasn't being picked on or treated differently to the rest.
You assumed that 'I'll sort it' meant that the deputy would change the rules and let it pass this time, but that's not what she said.

I'd be most cross now that the deputy has done sweet fa after assuring you that she would talk to your dd.

Are you going to ask the deputy today if she did mention it to dd/dinnerlady?

First of all, I wouldn't send my children to a school where children are regularly punished in this manner for minor infractions. It is utterly draconian and doesn't fit in with any modern philosophy of discipline. I would prefer to home ed if that was my only option.

But assuming I did, I would be furious for two reasons.

Firstly, I don't believe that a child should be humiliated, hurt or frightened by a 'punishment' - discipline should purely be for helping the child to improve their behaviour and a quiet word would have done easily in this situation. I believe standing against a wall in public is humiliating for a little child and utterly unnecessary.

Secondly and more importantly, I would have a serious problem with the punishment being allowed to 'run over' to the next day. Five year olds are tiny and can be sensitive little things. This sort of thing can escalate in a child's head to schoolphobia, bedwetting etc. (and no, I'm not being hysterical or pfb. Little ones can fret about tiny things.)

Personally, I /would/ talk to the headteacher about this. I would want to know why they had this sort of punishment and what evidence they had that it worked better than a quick word. Seems to be verging on sadistic to me.

"Furious, livid, very upset."

It's 5 minutes standing against a wall.

What are you going to do when something really awful happens? You'll have run out of emotions.

I'm bucking the trend here. Nowt wrong as far as I am concerned.

It's not 5 minutes though, is it?

You're not thinking like a five year old.

This could very easily have a knock-on effect on how they view school overall while they're still finding their bearings.

And yeah, I would be furious with a school that did this. I believe in treating children with respect. If the school I chose to send my children to treated them in a way I found cruel or unreasonable, I would be upset.

I've been through a lot of things and have a perfectly wide and varied range of emotions. But fury is definitely employed for me when children are treated poorly by those in a position of power.

lucky not at my ds school. They give whole lunchtime detentions and are made to sit on a chair the whole time.

I don't agree with punishments for very little people hanging over to the next day either. And 5 minutes standing against the wall could seem quite a big thing for some 5 year olds.

But "Seems to be verging on sadistic to me." - really??? Some people have let very sheltered lives!

Sheltered life?

I wish.

No. Children spend several hours, 5 days a week at school. I want it to be a happy place where they feel secure, they trust the staff and they are in turn shown trust and respect. I want my kids to learn and expand their interests and knowledge at school and find it a positive place. It's not a place for fear or unnecessary discomfort.

On the hierarchy of needs, for the most successful learning experience, children need to feel safe, secure and comfortable.

I thought I might get pulled up on 'sadistic' - ok, I don't mean the dinner lady is some sort of child-torturing harridan. But I question her motives in issuing a 'punishment' - it seems to be primarily to give the child discomfort and anxiety. It does not seem to be in the best interests of the child.

I'd also be interested in the qualifications of the dinner lady to be deciding upon such disciplinary actions.

But you didn´t think she would be excused her punishment, did you?

How could you tell her she wouldn´t have to do it?

You should have told her she would just have to suck it up like others have and make sure she didn´t break that rule again.

FWIW, I have never heard anything so draconian as standing a young child against the wall, but I don´t see why an exception should be made.

I assume you knew the rules before letting her start the school?

YABU. My son got in trouble for needing a wee in the lesson yesterday. I agreed with him that it seemed a bit OTT, but also said that the teacher can't have all 25 of them going for a wee, so he must go in break just in case. It's the same with talking in line presumably - if they all do it there's chaos when they're supposed to be getting organised.

How depressing that 'good schools' equates with poorly thought out rules and conformity for the sake of conformity. There are 'good' schools out there that allow for a bit of independent, critical and creative thinking and where collaboration in building a supportive learning environment takes priority over stupid rules. The problem with stupid rules is that they create problems. My dcs have attended two schools in the US with no uniform for example and the kids seem to have no problem in picking appropriate, comfortable, individual clothes. There's not all this faffing around with rebellious skirt lengths etc.

The more complex rules are, the less likely they are to be useful or upheld successfully.

I wouldn't ask that rules are changed for my dc, but I would certainly question rules which don't seem to be beneficial for anyone's dc. What's wrong with questioning something that doesn't make any sense?

That said... I would question the rule BEFORE signing up to the school if at all possible.

And yes, I would much prefer that my children have the ability to think independently, critically and creatively rather than blindly accepting anything they're told. Because if they are practiced in thinking his way, they will be better equipped to understand when conformity is needed, but also have the skills to rise above conformity and form their own ideas.

Just to check with the OP again ,did your DD seem upset when she told you about having to do the 5 minutes or was she matter of fact about it ? thats the day it actually happened on ,to clarify .