Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

..... to feel like getting rid of the x@$%** dog!!!!!

60 replies

CheekyGirl · 11/09/2009 22:14

Hi,

A bit of background: my sweet, sensitive, deep feeling/thinking 8yr old dd has been dog obsessed for over a year. She has been desperate for a pet dog for this time, but never nagged or anything. I am not a dog person. We also have an energetic, stubborn, boisterous 4.8 yr old ds.

After sponsoring a dog at the local dog rescue for a year, and visiting it weekly, the staff told us about a 6mth old terrier/daschund cross looking for a home. After discussing it with dh and doing some research, we decided to go for it. This was one month ago. The whole family is in love with dog. I am not. Very.

I freely admit I don't know much about dogs, although I am trying. I am worried about a few things:

  • Dog growls in his throat quite a bit, and it's getting worse eg. if we approach him and he doesn't feel like being stroked, if we say 'no' and he doesn't like it or sometimes if ds just approaches him. He has never bitten or seriously attempted to bite the kids. Just 'mouthing' sometimes.
  • He sort of attacked me the other day when I tried to move hime away from a hole he'd dug in the lawn. He'd growled a few times when I'd tried to call him away, and I then put my hand down and tried to get him by the collar. Before I'd touched him, he went mad, snarling and lunging for my hand. He didn't bite me, but only because I moved quickly!!
  • He barks alot when we aren't in the house. Neighbours patient at the moment but how long will it last??

So, what to do? Will it get better? Do we all need 'training'? I know my dd will be utterly DISTRAUGHT if we have to get rid of dog. Rest of family would be upset but would get over it. I feel totally trapped. Help!!!!

OP posts:
valhala · 12/09/2009 23:21

You poor love, you are not a bad person. A bad person wouldn't feel as you do, wouldn't be asking for advice and their dog wouldn't still be in the family home.

Re a dog sitter - maybe ask your local vet and pet shops if they know anyone who could help for a small fee? Even a neighbour? This daft beggar has dog sat for both a neighbour and when my pet shop suggested me to a young lady with an escape artist Greyhound with separation anxiety. I jumped at both chances, doing so for the neighbour for love of the dog, the stranger for a fiver here and there until I got to know the lady and said blow it, keep your money in your purse hun, its a pleasure to have your pooch here. That was a few years ago and the lady and I are now and have been for some years firm friends.

Neutering doesn't ALWAYS bring results to the kind of problem you are experiencing, but in my experience does so more often than not. Local training classes can be a blessing too (and are a great way of gaining advice, friends and perhaps that dog sitter). My own town's trainer charges £50 for an 8 week course, one evening a week, and I am near a major University city so I'd guess this is on the middle to upper scale of charges - dependant on where you live your local classes may be cheaper than my area.

I'd also say that if you can cope with kids, hey, you can cope with anything... don't put yourself down! DD1 was the first baby that I had ever held although I was 30 when she was born - and she and I are still in one piece! (Though I've been tempted to send the bugger back a few times over the past 14 years!!!)

Remember, your dog is still a baby... well, a toddler in dog years... and it is now you need to set the ground rules just as you taught your DC not to touch the cooker/bite their sibling/s etc. Its early days and yes, as a new owner it must be daunting to you.

You don't say if you have a partner - its no big deal in the world of dog owning if not, you can still cope, I do as a lone mum - but if you do perhaps you could ask him to support you with the strong tone etc?

All young dogs mouth, don't stress, though of course there is a difference between this and snapping or biting. One tip if he mouths is to shriek OUCH in a fairly high pitched tone, just as his baby brothers and sisters would squeak if he inadvertantly hurt them when playing. He will soon learn that this noise means he has overstepped the mark.

As for the barking when you go out, thats seperation anxiety and best nipped in the bud if possible. Leave a radio on in the room when you go out and if you are not going to be gone for long pop him in a crate where he will feel safe - dogs like their own "hidey-hole". Again, introduce him to a crate by persuasion, the door open, cuddly blanket and toy inside (though make sure he can't hurt himself by eating the eyes of a toy teddy or the like). He will soon consider that "his" place and retire to it when he wants to, so making popping him in when YOU want him there easier.

The other way to deal with this is a well known one to rescue workers and fosterers -its NOT to make a fuss of him before you go out or immediately after you return. And... don't laugh, though neighbours must have peed themselves at me with my foster dogs, but go through the motions of going out but return in 5 mins, gradually extending the time taken to return. Pick up your keys, put on your coat, bang the door shut, give it a mo on the doorstep, then re-enter, totally ignoring pooch. He will eventually realise that you aren't abandoning him.

On a lighter note, this method can make an even bigger fool of you though. A friend and fellow fosterer did this recently with her foster Lurcher, who cries when she leaves although her own SIX smaller dogs are quiet as lambs. So, Amanda puts her coat on, picks up her keys, jangles them, slams the door, creeps round to the side of the house and stands listening (while her neighbours are looking out of their windows thinking she has lost the plot).

Nothing.

Complete silence.

She thinks she's cracked it!

She walks back in and into the kitchen... and discovers why its so quiet.

The bread rolls which she had bought for her husband's lunch have been removed from the kitchen surface and were on the floor, merrily being munched at by all seven dogs... but there was only ONE which was tall enough to reach them!

Btw, where does pooch sleep? Just thinking, if he sleeps on a human's bed (although again, I'm guilty, my GSD and Labrador sleep on mine), yours might be getting a reinforced message that he is top dog and you are there to do his bidding. If this is the case, again, a crate or popping him in the another room (although he might complain for a couple of nights) might help disabuse him of this notion.

Finally, sorry for jabbering on, but PLEASE don't be so hard on yourself. If you could only see some of my posts on my rescue's forums about a couple of families who HAVE given up too soon without caring and without trying, you'd realise why I (who can be REALLY stroppy about owners who don't make an effort!), have every respect for you in the world and will do my utmost to help if I can.

CheekyGirl · 13/09/2009 22:20

Thanks so much, Valhala.

Dog sleeps downstairs!! Def not on our bed! Have considered a crate, but he's never been in one before, so not sure how he'd take to it. Also (and this may sound like a lame excuse) we live in a very small open plan house and honestly don't have the space to have a crate up all the time.

Have looked into classes but no luck as he's 8mths now and puppy classes only take up to 20week olds. No other classes in 30mile radius. However, at great expense, I have booked a one-to-one session with a local dog trainer. We'll see how that goes.

I think much of the problem stems from the fact that I am really not a dog lover. I thought I'd be fine with our own, but, after 5 weeks, I still just can't 'get into it'. How long should I give it? I really am prepared to give it a good shot, as it would mean so much to the rest of the family. However, I am the dog's main carer since I'm the one around during the day.

OP posts:
macaronicheeseplease · 13/09/2009 22:29

I just want to say that we got an adorable pup, (who turned 8 yrs old last week!) and the six months age was the worst. We'd had her then for about 4 months and she was a right PITA and I felt at my wit's end.

BUT, we stuck it out and I'm so glad we did. It did take me a while to 'bond' with her but now she's like my 3rd child and she & I are very close!!

valhala · 13/09/2009 22:40

CheekyGirl, don't know if I am allowed to do this so if I'm not, I'm sorry Mods. But, if you go to my rescues forum and register there telling the friendly owners that you have been recommended by "Harvey", where I am a member (Google Poplar Farm Kennels Forum, its a bit of a beggar to find), then pm me, "Harvey" on the forum I will do my best to see if I know of or can find anyone in your area who may be able to help as I'm lucky in having soppy dog loving and/or rescue involved contacts across the country.

Of course if you'd rather not there's no offence taken.

teamcullen · 13/09/2009 22:47

I know how you feel. we got our jack russell when he was 7 weeks old. It is the first dog we have had although myself and dh had family dogs as children. We did everything wrong and now have a dog who thinks he is the boss.

He was so small and cute that he had us wrapped around his little paw. When he growled at the kids we would tell the kids off for tormenting him, when he cried at 4 in the morning we let him sleep on our bed and so on. We now have a very grumpy dog who never does as he is told.

He has never had formal training and has not been neutered which has now become a priority. I am worried that we have left it too late to turn things around as the dog is nearly two. I cant really afford to waste money on neutering and training if it doesnt calm him but would pay if I knew it would work.

The dog is part of the family and we wouldnt get rid of him but he is embarrsing when people come round and we have to lock him in another room because of his behaviour.

valhala · 13/09/2009 23:00

Teamcullen, its very rarely too late in my experience. Neutering helps more often than not, as do the ideas on takingn charge without being unkind which I mentioned previously.

I have seen far bigger and very aggressive dogs turned round with time and effort and see no reason why your own shouldn't respond similarly. Essentially a dog needs to know he is safe and often the stroppiness is a show that he either thinks he is boss, thus safe, or that he doesn't think you are a strong enough character and therefore he has to get arsey to prove that he IS. If you act as top dog and ensure that YOU not he sits on the chair he wants to have, you and the family eat first, that your bed is indeed yours and his is elsewhere - again a crate might help though be prepared for a few nights complaining- he will soon learn.

CheekyGirl, a crate doesn't need to be up all day. The vast majority collapse and can be reconstructed in seconds so they are only about 4 inches thick and can be slid alongside a kitchen unit or whatever.

purpleduck · 13/09/2009 23:02

Hi
Re the lunging at you thing - he probably hasn't been taught any different. Our 2nd dog used to growl at us when he was eating when he was just a pup. I had to train that out of him as we didn't want him to be food defensive. We just gave him a tastier morsel while he was feeding (ie offered him cheese or something - and pet him while he was feeding). He soon learned to trust us, and he never growls at us now. He is the best natured dog, but I do think he could have went either way.

BTW, we have had 2 pups from the Dogs Trust - the first when my dd was 2. They are generally very good with advice, so I would give them a call.

Good luck, and I hope with a bit of training, you will grow to love your dog.

teamcullen · 13/09/2009 23:30

Valhala- thanks, we have stoped giving him scraps off our plates and if he does get them, it is only after everybody has finnished. He begs much less already after only about 2 weeks.

The problem with him crying at night is he has a very high pitched bark and the walls are very thin, so we have to think of the neighbours, which is why we gave into him in the first place. DH refuses to let him cry through the night even though Ive told him it would only take about 3 nights. I do make him sleep on his own bed in our room but more often than not he climbs on our bed at about 6am.

Our biggest problems are getting him to come when we ask him to or stay when we tell him to, jumping up at people, barking at the kids when they are playing in the garden.

OK basically everything, can dog trainers help to stop these behaviours. My mum looked after him a couple of weeks ago when we were away and he was a nightmare for her, even though he does actually love my mum.

valhala · 13/09/2009 23:58

Teamcullen, I would say that a dog behaviouralist rather than a trainer would be your best bet. No, he's not nuts, he's just being a dog!

Anyone can call themselves a trainer etc so look for someone with qualifications and ask around for other's recommendations. Again, joining a forum such as DogPages or Biggsd might well help with this - just state your area as they have masses of members. Even if they can't help directly you wil have the ability to make and recieve pms and to get further ideas and referrals.

My own local rescue has a qualified behaviouralist who gave classes once a week at only £5 per owner - it may help to ask your local rescues to see if they know of anyone. Ours has had the cheek to get pregnant and so is taking a break - how selfish can you get! lol

They say that you have to be the best thing since sliced bread to make your dog want to do what he is told... and that normally means you provide food! Not just any old food.. you can make (though I never have as I am lucky enough to have 2 greedy dogs who like shop bought treats) a very smelly but attractive to dogs liver treat very easiily. They love the smell and taste and will usually give up all distraction to come for it.

The barking at the kids may be one which you may never entirely change but will fade with age - his and theirs. At present he is quite young and if your kids are too and he is excitable, which it sounds possible, he will join in - when they run round or make noise he takes it as a cue to join the pack in doing so.

Jumping may be worked on with a firm NO (learn to bellow like me in anotherwords!) and turning your back, giving him the signal that you are ignoring him and disengaging in any interaction with him if he acts like this. It may take time but the key is consistancy - ensure the whole family do it, every time. That said one of my rescues pups, who is completely bonkers, responded well to this after just half an hour with me bellowing across their paddock. (Luckily they are on a remote farm, admittedly).

I'm afraid that often we humans need training and with respect I would say that your OH does insofar as you are right about the standing firm and letting pooch complain about being apart from you at bedtime.

If you have understanding neighbours you may like to consider explaining the situation, assuring them it won't last and trying to pop pooch in a crate overnight, in your room or elsewhere. Perhaps if you know they are going away at Xmas or somesuch you can try it then without fear of offending?

Equally if you introduce a crate in the daytime and make it somewhere he wants to go with the door open, he may find it more acceptable at night a lot quicker. I say a crate as otherwise I fear you might find torn up carpet edges of scratched doors if he is merely shut in another room.

I'm no expert, just a fruitcake about dogs with a bit of experience of my own and those I've fostered, so I don't promise to have all the answers - these are just the ones which have worked for me and others like me.

teamcullen · 14/09/2009 00:21

Thanks for your advice valhala. I will look into a behavourist and I am going to book him in to be neutered at the end of the month. I will have a look at your forum as well.

He can be very good. He is left in the living room while Im at work. He never wees or poos in the house unless we have been held up and are really late, in which case its not really his fault and he is really sorry. (looks sheepish)

He never plays with himself in front of us or trys to mount us either. He asks to go out if he is feeling excited.

valhala · 14/09/2009 00:30

If you'd like to join the Poplar Farm Kennels Forum you'll be made very welcome. Because of spammers the owners have reluctantly decided to request that newcomers email them in order to join in and post so please don't be put off by that.

"Harvey" hopes to see you there!

bumpsoon · 14/09/2009 08:31

Cheekygirl ,i love dogs ,all dogs ,big ,small etc .I got a rescue when my DD was 18months old and it took me a good six months to bond with him . I took him to dog training classes ,we did the remedial course twice !! It really helped me ,because it made me undersatnd him more and this helped me to relax and trust in my own abilities .Four and half years later ,he is still here and very much loved ,oh and a bit better behaved . His 'issues' were different to your puppies issues .You really do need to be firm with your puppy , as others have said he is taking the mickey out of you and pushing his boundaries ,as all terriers are wont to do. Hope the behaviourist can help you and good luck.

Glob · 14/09/2009 09:09

Cheekygirl (and Teamcullen) - we adopted a dog who displayed the same behaviour as yours. He was 18 months old at the time and we believe had a bad background. Long story short, he ended up biting me on the face (luckily this was pre-kids). He did warn me with a lot of growling but I had no idea.

I don't say this to scare you but I really wish someone had warned me.

If you stick with him, like we did, you will have to put in a lot of time and effort to change his behaviour, and you may have to really toughen up. He needs to know the boundries. You might also have to resign yourself to the fact that you won't have the kind of relationship you want with your pup. i.e. you will always have to keep a close eye on him with the kids, make sure they aren't eating anything which he could grab or get defensive about etc.

Your second option is to say this isn't the pup for you and take him back. No one would judge you for trusting your instincts. Better now than later, so he can be rehomed with someone with more experience.

It is such a hard decision and I feel for you. Our dog-friend is 13 now. He has been (and still is) a lot of work. It's not at all what we expected when taking him on.

By the way, a crate really helped with sleeping at night (previously he was waking at 5am and high pitched yelping for his morning walk until we got up). It was/is worth the room it takes up.

All the best.

Mybox · 14/09/2009 09:28

This is a great book that will help you be the leader of the pack! www.amazon.co.uk/Think-Dog-Owners-Canine-Psychology/dp/1844031209

It sounds like your dog needs to know he's last in line.

Alambil · 14/09/2009 09:35

Did you know it can take up to 20 weeks for a dog to start to feel settled in their new family?

A year, and they're fully integrated

Don't give up yet - and yes, a good trainer who also knows dog behaviour patterns will be able to help with everything - my mum would be able to sort him out in 4 lessons (if you put in the homework!) as it sounds like lack of knowledge and confidence rather than a bad dog.

Stayingsunnygirl · 14/09/2009 10:26

This is a fascinating thread! I am another novice dog-owner and am doubting my own abilities too. We've got a 16 week old labrador puppy, who is gorgeous but bites if frustrated. I have spoken to one of the local ladies who runs puppy classes, and she is going to work with me once we start the classes next week.

I did also notice that some of the adverts for puppy classes also mention one-to-one training at home, as valhala mentioned.

I am particularly interested to read about the pack theory being widely discredited - I can't say that it's been at the forefront of everything I've done with the dog, but it has definitely been in my mind.

CyradisTheSeer · 14/09/2009 10:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

yorkyporky · 14/09/2009 17:37

Stayingsunnygirl - Google "dominance myth" there is absolutely loads of information out there about it.

The main things to do are firstly to manage the situation. When you've got a dog you think may bite around small children you need to make sure they are kept physically separate unless you are there to keep control of the situation. Secondly remember that dogs (people too) do things because there is some kind of reinforcement in it for them. Think about what you do when they behave in a certain way and if your response is going to reinforce that behaviour or not. Lastly don't give freebies. Make your dog earn your attention, food and toys. Think of it as getting him to say "please". Just a simple thing like "sit" would do. This teaches him that doing what he's told is more beneficial than not.

yorkyporky · 14/09/2009 17:38

DailyMailNameChanger - I don't think I know you, if that helps?

UndomesticHousewife · 14/09/2009 17:55

This dog has attacked you and may very well do it again to your kids.
It warned you often enough and if your kids don't heed the warning (growling) the dog will bite them.
Speak to the shelter or your vet about how to manage a dog which displays this type of behaviour.

Is it a territorial thing when a dog growls and attacks when you try to go near something it has?
If I remember correctly a dog shouldn't own anything, it's all yours and you should be able to take anything away from them that you want (though how this applies to a hole I'm not sure!)

CheekyGirl · 15/09/2009 21:47

Wow, been away from PC for a while and so many more replies and kind words!!

Things are no better, and I have to admit I'm feeling a bit resentful about the situation. I've contacted the dog rescue and they've put me in touch with a behavioural therapist who I've now emailed. I hope she'll be able to come to the house and advise us!!

Sounds awful, but if it wasn't for the fact that I know the kids would be devastated, I'd hand him back tomorrow even though I am truly fond of him.

OP posts:
Ninks · 15/09/2009 21:58

And very silly words from me - I do apologise. Glad everyone ignored my drunken and ignorant post. I do have awful experiences which shaped it, but I should not have cannoned into your dilemma. Thankfully you have received good and supportive advice.

Cheeky I am very sorry that this is happening. Poor you, having to deal with this bearing in mind your DC. I really hope you get it sorted x

elastamum · 15/09/2009 22:44

Poor you, do go and get help from a dog trainer before you give up. You will need to get firm with your dog and establish the ground rules about who is in charge and the trainer will help you do this. Growling at you is their way of testing you and challenging your authority. Your six month old is a teenager in dog terms. Both my labradoodles have growled at me as pups and got put in their place and they have grown up into beautiful loving dogs who wouldnt hurt anyone, my kids love them to bits. I did spend a lot of time saying NO very loudly when they were pups and sometimes getting hold of the side of their face, like a mum dog would and giving them a telling off. Having your dog neutered will help but dog training and disipline is a must. He should also getplenty of exercise, ours cause havoc if they dont get walked. Hopefully the dog will grow into a well behaved member of your family and be much happier once you are firmly in charge

valhala · 15/09/2009 23:02

Ninks, I have never before seen someone come back with so gracious a post - good on you. You weren't ignorant, you spoke on the basis of personal experience. My 53 year old DP has been bitten on 3 seperate occasions by 3 different GSDs and is unsurprisingly scared of them so I understand a little of your concerns. Luckily, since meeting my late GSD and my present one, DP is gradually becoming less afraid of them and trusts my boy because of both his personality and my confidence in him. I hope that you will be as fortunate and meet dogs which make you feel the same in future.

My own experiences have been the opposite of yours - I have trained foster dogs out of problems such as Cheeky's and took on a previously abused large breed dog with issues who is tonight asleep at my feet, my faithful friend and our(unbidden) protector and love of my and my DC's lives. So, I DO know that these problems can be turned around but am such a dog-fanatic that I sometimes forget the real fear and horrid experiences others can go through.

I honestly believe though that with the right attitude on the part of Cheeky and family, some training and perserverence and consistancy, this dog, given that he is young and small, can become as much of a loved and affectionate pet as my own Lab and GSD. So often I see, in my task as a rescue volunteer, people who are unwilling to make an effort or take advice and who give up at the first hurdle, which makes my blood boil.

Cheeky hun, you are not one of these people and (I hope that you don't find this patronising, it's not meant to be), you should be proud of yourself for this. As I have said before, it may help to find a rescue or dog-owners forum with which you feel comfortable and gain further advice and support. Hopefully you may also find someone local to you who is as daft as I am and who might take up the challenge and meet you and pooch, and who may be able to help out practically.

Ninks · 15/09/2009 23:15

valhala thank you so much. I didn't deserve such kind words