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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

bad mother or bad daughter

47 replies

pippapenguin · 07/09/2009 18:11

I have 3 adult children, pregnant with my 4th. First two children are pleasant, hardworking,etc but my third is a bitch. Since she was 12(she's now 18) she has been awful, constantly truanting, getting in trouble with the police, smoking cannibis, doing pills. She lives like a pig and doesn't do a thing around the house. I've tried to help her, she's been diagnosed with depression but the constant verbal abuse has finally worn me out and i've asked her to leave for the sake of my pregnancy. She just called me an evil c*. My point is do we do our best for or children forever or is there a point when you can reasonably just give up on your child?

OP posts:

Original poster

pippapenguin · 07/09/2009 19:31

The thing is I don't call her names to her face,I know calling her a bitch on a forum isn't great but I'm always staying calm, trying to talk to her but she doesnt want to know. She's had councelling for 5 years, doesn't appear to be helping much, doesn't want family councelling. I'm not comparing her with her siblings, just saying they turned out fine with the same upbringing. Theyve both left home as they couldn't bear to live with her and her father lives in Ireland, sees her sporadically but he has bipolar( we split when she was 8 btw ). When she was 12 she was bullied and kept running away from school. In the end I left my job and home tutored her for 3 years, sat in hospital with her when she got taken in twice for being unconcious through drink, sat in police stations on numerous occassions waiting for her to be released, spoon fed her citalopram for 2 years, and omega oils and and tried to improve her diet, driven miles in the dark to find her when she's cut her face to pieces, spent xmas day 3 years ago searching for her with police sniffer dogs when she cut her wrists to pieces and jumped out the window, been threatened with a knife to my throat for not letting her stay out past 9 at 14. It just goes on and on and its so draining , especially as she doesnt want my help, she just wants me to stay out of her face

OP posts:

waitingforbedtime · 07/09/2009 19:38

pippa - so sorry for you all going through this. she may not really want you to 'stay out of her face' but if she does, could you whilst she lives with you? Obviously theres an extent but maybe thats what she needs (or maybe itll make her realise its NOT what she realises.

Also, sorry but saying your other kids turned out fine wwith the same upbringing IS comparing and that will never help, either of you.

She sounds so unhappy and I would be very very worried about her and what might happen to her. Keep her close physically if you cant do so emotionally. She sounds desperately sad. x

skihorse · 07/09/2009 19:38

She does want your help though, if she didn't, she would've left already. You're doing something right I think - even if you don't feel you are.

Original poster

pippapenguin · 07/09/2009 19:39

I'd love to find her a room/flat btw but I can barely afford the mortgage on this place.I don't want to give up on her, it breaks my heart but I am SO tired of it all

OP posts:

Podrick · 07/09/2009 19:40

"My point is do we do our best for or children forever or is there a point when you can reasonably just give up on your child?"

She has depression - it's difficult for her to live with and for you to live with. She needs help and support, so do you. You are her mother - find her the help she needs, don't think of giving up on her and don't ever call her a bitch - I know kids can push you to the limits but I am shocked by your post.

Original poster

pippapenguin · 07/09/2009 19:44

Living with the knowledge that you somehow failed your daughter is so hard to live with. I would do ANYTHING to help her, but I just don't know WHAT to do anymore

OP posts:

posieparker · 07/09/2009 19:48

I was an awful teen, with no alcohol, drugs, bfs or depression. I only got on with my Mother once I'd had my own dcs. Try a friendly approach, she sounds defensive attacking to protect herself. Set some serious ground rules that she has to live by.

slowreadingprogress · 07/09/2009 19:48

she sounds as if she has been/is very ill indeed. The thing is she has had some significant stuff in her life - your split with her dad for one, and his bipolar, and lack of regular 'proper' contact with him, the bullying she endured, new partner for you and pregnancy...all major things, and just because your other children have coped well with some of these situations doesn't mean they won't have been damaging to her personally, even having had the same upbringing as them.

You really have been through the mill with her and clearly you are at the end of your tether. Do you belong to any carer's groups? I know MIND and Rethink run local groups to support carers and I've known people find them a real benefit.

I agree with what waiting said - keep her close physically even if you can't emotionally.....

I imagine your new pregnancy will be alot for her to deal with too.

dogofpoints · 07/09/2009 19:49

I've only read the op.

I have a friend with a dd who sounds like your thrid,(but even worse, hard though that is to believe). Her daughter is jusy about to turn 16 and my friend is vowing to wash her hands of her if all the crap that started at 12 continues past 16 (which it is very likely to do).

I don't know if this is the right thing to do, or even if there is a right thing to do. I don't know if there is a time to give up. But I completely understand my friend's decision. Her life has been hellish at times.

posieparker · 07/09/2009 19:50

You haven't failed, sometimes things are not what we expect. she may turn out to be a very compassionate adult and do something wonderful with her life, I watched that BBC search for a new member of the natural history unit. the girl (19) who won was a 'failure' at school, flitting from job to job..... don't give up but do give yourself a break.

curiositykittykat · 07/09/2009 19:55

blue shoes - I think she needs to focus on doing all she can to get the daughter into therapy and/or onto meds. The daughter probably needs a thorough medical investigation too to see if there are contributing factors to the depression. They never checked my thyroid. They should have done, it's a simple blood test.

I think the child needs the boundaries to be given with love rather than the feeling she is a bitch. I think the mother needs to be aware that the child will probably break the boundaries all the time but she still needs to carry on giving them and giving them with love. If she is diagnosed with depression you absolutely have to treat the depression before you do anything else.

In some ways I wish my parents had had me committed rather than just turfed me out with nowhere to go.

I think the hitting rock bottom approach can work out but only if it luckily co-incides with an improvement in the mental health of the person. If you have depression your mind doesn't work in the same way as other people's but you do normally have some better times and some worse.

I think I was lucky with timings. If she's depressed it's likely she'll drive herself towards rock bottom and beyond but it won't be her, it'll be her illness that's controlling it. You need to treat the illness.

Some of her behaviour will be her and some of it will be her illness. You can't sort out which things you need to work on until you have sorted out which things are the illness.

Hope I'm making sense. I feel so much for the OP though. I know what effect this has had on my mother.

curiositykittykat · 07/09/2009 20:05

pippa - It sounds terrible what you are going through. I think she cannot necessarily choose what she needs to help her. Family therapy might be it. She might be bipolar - it can be genetically inherited. You need support, family therapy might get you that. If not you should have your own counselling.

If her counselling is not working perhaps she needs a change in style - maybe CBT? I'd be concerned as her doctor that she was bipolar if her father was and she is presenting with depressive symptoms.

Bipolar is very different to depression and needs very different treatment.

If her meds are not working ask for them to be changed. Do everything you can to get proper diagnosis and treatment for her illness even if it means having her committed and try to do it all with love. I know you do not mean that you really think she is a bitch.

Original poster

pippapenguin · 07/09/2009 21:01

She was recently assesed by a team of psychiatrists (wrong spelling i know). They said she is not bipolar as she doesn't have the ups. The said she is clinically depressed and gave her prozac which she won't take and I can't make her.

OP posts:

Stigaloid · 07/09/2009 21:57

Can you have her committed? When i was suffering badly from depression i was an out patient at a ARC ward. Helped me greatly to have a safe place in which to deal with my emotions. There were a lot of other girls my age dealing with depression - some out patients who attended on a daily basis like me and others who stayed for extended periods. She clearly needs to be somewhere where she feels safe enough to experience her emotions and work through her depression. I am surprised she wasn't committed after cutting her face up and being searched for by police dogs.

Sounds like you are exhausted and run down by it all. Yes we should care for our children, but you are no good to them if you do not take care of yourself. Sounds like you need a break and she needs help - i would look into what options you have available through your local PCT in terms of assistance to you both

Good luck

stickylittlefingers · 07/09/2009 22:20

It's really not easy and there's no easy answer. Several of my relatives have been sectioned at various points - some families are unlucky with their genes.

Your daughter has special needs. If she was in a wheelchair it would be easier to understand that you are both going to need help. But like any parent whose child has SN, you must keep fighting for her.

Is she very involved with drugs? This is likely to be making her condition much worse.

skihorse · 08/09/2009 09:26

I'm glad she has had some assessment by a psych team - but I would try for more. The medical profession as a whole are reluctant to label a "child"... but she's 18 now and she needs help and like others have said, perhaps she has a genetic disposition and the trauma of the bullying at 12 (I doubt it was the frst time she was bullied) may have toppled the balance from a PTSD pov.

It does sound as though you're dealing with an awful lot - but I really hate the way you're comparing her to her siblings.

I agree with the poster who said she's special needs.

Buda · 08/09/2009 10:01

She is ill. You can't compare her with her siblings. They are not ill.

Go back to the team of psychiatrists and tell them she won't take the prozac. Tell them she needs more intervention. She is ill so you need to be her advocate. You may have to make some hard decisions like having her committed to somewhere but that will be better than washing your hands of her. Would you sleep at night wondering where she was and what she was up to?

If you force intervention of some sort on to her she will probably hate you at the time. But when she is better she will know you did it for the right reasons. If you throw her out you risk her hating you forever or actually succeeding in one of her suicide attempts.

It is a bit different but my Mum had a stroke last year. In the build up to that her behaviour changed. She is convinced that my dad is having an affair with the man across the road. There are other things going on as well. I would try and argue with her logically till my sister pointed out that Mum is brain damaged. Her brain does not work like mine. I still have to remind myself that my Mum is in fact ill.

I would not you are bad or your DD is bad. She is ill and you are understandably at the end of your tether. However she is still your child. And I would imagine that even if she is almost 18 she is still a very scared 12 year old under all the bravado.

skihorse · 08/09/2009 10:42

My parents chucked me out when I was 18 - paid the rent - but I've never really forgiven them - and from my pov it's how they always handle problems - throwing money at them.

Original poster

pippapenguin · 08/09/2009 16:52

When she was assessed she signed a form saying that I was not allowed to read her notes or have any imput in her medication. Therefore I have no rights whatsoever,I can't intervene, I can't get any councelling for myself unless I can pay, which I can't.They class her as an adult whose mental state is of no relevance to me, in fact even when she was younger her councellor wouldnt/couldnt discuss her case with me.Basically i'm left floundering in the dark. Anyway I would never chuck her out really, I've just run out of ideas. I can see her ruining her future and theres nothing I can do to stop her.

OP posts:

maryz · 08/09/2009 17:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skihorse · 08/09/2009 18:41

pippa Are you able to contact social services about getting her some "assisted housing" or something? It might mean that she goes on the "at risk" register but they would be able to get her council accommodation and she would be assigned a social worker - who at least would hopefully relieve you of some of the responsibility.

My boyfriend's sister is 19 and she's being helped by social services because his mum just couldn't cope/stand with her around anymore.

roseability · 08/09/2009 21:26

you can never give up on your child

She will not be behaving like this for no reason. Maybe she resents the pregnancy when she needs you most?

Maybe she feels inferior to her siblings who you say are so pleasant?

I am 30 and have such a bad relationship with my parents it has caused me a lot of sadness and they are now not close to my children. Don't let this happen for your daughter's sake

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