to expect a refund when returning an unworn item with tags within 7 days to the shop?

[MichKit]

... sorry, a bit if a rant coming up. I had a wedding to attend yesterday, and so on Wednesday I went shopping for a dress to wear. I couldn't find anything I liked or in my size, so in a panic I went into an LK Bennett store (out of my price range, but I was panicking!) and paid £185 for a dress. I tried it on in the store.

Anyways, the next day, I went in to Debenhams and saw another dress that I had liked I had liked the day before, but they hadn't had it in my size then. I found it on Thursday on the sale rack in my size, so was delighted and bought it, intending to return the other one to the store. I wore the Debenhams dress to the wedding and had a great time.

Anyways, I took the LK Bennett dress back to the store today, and was told point blank that there was 'damage' to the dress, and they wouldn't refund the money. I was completely shocked, especially since it was still wrapped up. I hadn't even taken it out of the wrapping, and they said the dress was not unworn as it had marks on it. I pointed out that surely other people would have tried the dress on in store, and that could have also been the reason for the marks. Again, I was practically accused of lying, and that the dress would be sent to customer services for analysis (really???).

I realise that I should have checked the dress for any marks before I bought it, but I bloody well trusted the shop assistant who packed the dress for me!!! Plus, I know that she didn't check the dress for any damage either, and the shop assistant today is claiming that she did (the one that served me was off today) They are claiming that since the dress was 'damaged' in my care, they cannot offer me a refund.

Feeling very sick, stressed and worried now, close to tears and wondering if I have lost the money for good. Please can anyone tell me what I need to do? AIBU to expect better service from a high end store. I know I live in the Liverpool area but surely that's no excuse for treating a customer like this!!

I dont expect they would have such systems in place and absolutely do NOT take ANY responsibility for not doing so. I only mention it as it shows that without these processess, how can they be so steadfast that the marks occurred AFTER and not BEFORE you purchased the dress. I would press for the info they have that points to the fault lying with you and not them.

RenderedSpeechless, that's the information I was trying to get out of their customer services, and failed. They claim the damage was caused by me, but have no proof to show that. Their claim is that they would not have sold the dress to me in a damaged condition, but the fact is that they did, and now are refusing me the refund based on that!!

Its like banging my head against a brick wall

You could attach a copy of the relevant section of the Sale of Goods Act, as obviously, they have never read it. The part that say's 'fit for purpose'

MK, glad the cc co are being more helpful. Last post wasnt clear, but was not your job to check that dress was pristine (might omit that word from letter?), and you shouldnt, even in hindsight take on that responsibility. LK fully resp to sell goods in merchandable quality.

Thanks, I'll omit that word, and mention it was in the condition I was sold it.

Was going to Brighton tomorrow to get bridesmaid dresses and shoes from LKB.

Bride is a regular customer, I have sent her a link to this thread. Guess what, she is appalled at the service you have received and as vowed never to shop there again. When I say she is a regular customer, her whole wardobe is LKB

So thats three dresses at £185 and three pairs of shoes at £175 £1080 lost this weekend at the Brighton branch.

Will also send to MIL who is a huge fan of their shoes

Thanks for the support everyone. I've said this before, I honestly wouldn't have taken this forward if it was not for the support I recieved on here. The store made me feel like I was completely unreasonable and how dare I even expect a refund. It was only after I came on Mumsnet, all stressed out, that I felt that actually I was not being all that unreasonable after all. And even now, when I am beginning to get all doubtful and stressed out again, its Mumsnet that's giving me the support to keep going!!

Its kinda sad really, DH and DD are staying with grandparents for two weeks and it was supposed to be my time to chill and relax. With this over my head, I am more stressed out than ever :-(

You are not been unreasonable you are standing up against all the appalling customer service in this country.

My DH often laughs at me when i fire off letters of complaint to companies, but why should we hand over our hard earned money to companies who couldn't give a toss, and then let them get away with it.

Send the Customer Services a link to this thread, I think you are fantastic to not take this lying down.

Just read this and I'm very shocked about how you have been treated. From what I have read they seem intent on ripping their customers off - I will join the boycott.

You have been given some really good advice. However don't follow the advice to contact the police. It is a civil matter and the police would not get involved.

You are having a stressful time, but you will feel so much better when you have fought this and won! Good luck.

bloody appalling. I've been following this thread and not posted before but had assumed common sense would prevail and you'd get your refund. Amazed by their position.
Am I right in thinking they are saying no refund but they still have the dress? Have they not returned it to you? If not, then sorry but potentially it is a criminal matter as you legally own the dress. Of course the police won't be interested as nigglewiggle have said but you could still put the fear of christ into LKB by threatening report them for theft

I do hope that someone there does finally see sense and you get your refund.

nigglewiggle, I wasn't going to, as you're absolutely right, its a civil matter.

I've looked at the samll claims now, and they suggest that they be used as a last resort, so I am going to give the CC company some time to investigate. From what I gathered, they've done this before before other companies as well. He also mentioned it was a shame that more people didn't contact them.

What I am now nervous of is that I've read in several reviews that if LK Bennett usually tend to send back things (if they do at all) using ordinary post not recorded. One person has complained about that, and that they have lost their items as a result. Now that's weighing on my mind as well. Then they claim to have no knowledge of the item, costing the person quite a bit.

The more I read about them, the more angry I am getting. Well, at least I've stopped crying now!

Mumoverseas, sadly I don't think that'll wash as I have been given a reciept. But its bothering me that there could now be more damage in transit etc, and wondering if they are liable for that.

In hindsight, I shouldn't have let them take the dress, in the first place!!

Just had to post and say "you go, MK" - this is terrible customer service and I for one will be boycotting LKB - shocking store.

Keep us posted with updates....

Think the notion that LK intend to keep dress is a bit of a red herring TBH. Assuming that LK have OP's address, it will be returned in due course. Not unreasonable, in itself, IMO so I agree that police involvement or pursuit of this as a 'criminal matter' is a non-starter.

Would request full report on analysis carried out - though I suspect it was just sent for a 'second opinion' at this stage. Have you requested full details of the nature and scope of the analysis? Also maybe specifically request pass/fail outcome levels for each tested category. Is independent testing an option via their Head Office Where both parties share a % of the cost? Think you mentioned it earlier, but cant remember what you said. Have the CC company stated what line they are taking?

Can you contact them and confirm that they still have the dress? If so expressly request they return it by recorded post. Note time, date and name of personnell and follow up with an email. That way, if they do send by normal post they will have acted outside your request?

Just a thought.

There are iffy reviews about LKB's refund policies all over the internetty although until reading your horrible story, Mich, I hadn't thought to check. I'm about to wander off into Brighton for one of my seasonal splurges (I NEED these clothes, you understand!!) so I'm another potential customer lost.

I'm still baffled about why taking your dress away was ever going to prove anything (other than providing an excellent chance for LKB to lose it) and I cannot imagine other retailers going to such lengths. Not least because the costs involved are as great as a simple refund. Which makes me suspect that your dress has never been sent further than the back office of the store.

Don't stress too much (you've accidentally come up against a world class operator so far as piss poor customer service is concerned) but try and get one of the consumer programmes to take the case up. Radio 4's You and Yours are good as is the Guardian's consumer reporter.

RenderedSpeechless, I am sure they will return the dress in due course, but now it worries me that they won't send it recorded delivery. Plus, I have had no information whatsoever about what sort of tests/ analysis they were going to run on the dress. When I asked they said it was with thier 'quality control' team and I would hear about it in due course. No indication of where/ when/ what tests. When I asked, I was fobbed off with, 'well, quality control will look at them and assess them'.

I've just picked up on another inconsistency by the way. At the store, when the manager was trying to claim that the marks were made by me, she mentioned that the mark on the bust did not look like make-up (which is what I suggested, as its clear they don't dry clean the dresses after every single person who's tried them on) which is why they wanted to get it to 'quality control' so they could analyse the marks. But today, their customer services manager says that the marks are make-up and that they could have only come from me... hmmmm!!! Perhaps I should have recorded the conversations.

Oh, and independent testing has to be done by me, and paid for by me as well. This was told to me by Consumer Direct. And yes, I've asked several times about what these tests are and not received a convincing answer.

From as far as I am aware from my conversation with the CC company, they have said that as far as legalities are concerned, I should not have been sold the dress in the first place, but seeing as it was now being disputed they will keep me informed through their investigation. Their take is that I am in the right as far as they are concerned at the moment, but now its a matter of proving it and disputing with the retailer. So it will take time, but they have to complete it in a specified time period, so I would imagine they would do it very soon.

I also asked about the dress being with the retailer, for that they said that the retailer has to send the dress back to me in the exact condition that it was sold to me, and to make sure there was no additional damage. After which I keep it with me until the dispute is resolved.

This is, of course, if I get the dress back in one piece. Like I said, I am concerned about that at the moment, though I can't see how, having refused me a refund they are legally entitled to keep the dress for any longer.

Sorry x posted. Yes, I will now call them and make sure that the dress is returned recorded delivery. Though, now I guess I just have to wait until CD or credit card cmpany comes up with something I can do to get my money back.

Sorry if this has been asked, but I assume the tags were still on?
That aside, they sound blöödy rude!
The way they are carrying on, you´d think that they have to pay refunds out of their own pockets!
Have they even offered a credit note?
(not that I would ever want anything from that place again).
But if you knew someone who shopped there you could perhaps sell it.
Have you gone to local press with it?
For me, the thing is that they are basically calling you a liar.
Do they have to prove that you marked the dress, or do you have to prove that you didn´t?

Diddl, yes the tags were on and completely clean and I had my reciept as well. I had only had it for about 3 days (2 and half, if I count the hours).

And no, they haven't offered me a credit note either.

In fact the end of the conversation went something like this 'sorry we cannot offer you a refund as we think that you have damaged the dress, because we wouldn't have sold it to you in that condition'. So, well apart from calling me a liar, they are lying about it too.

Sorry Mich, sounds like they are trying to bombard you with bullshit! Unless their analysis can conclusively PROVE that the marks were make up AND were caused within the timeframe when the dress was in your possession, that is clearly crap. Can they also prove that the dress had not been tried on by anyone else before you purchased it? If not, again, crap!

I am normally such a calm person, but getting so angry on your behalf. They appear to be seeking victory by wearing you down.

If this is the position they are standing by, its even more important to get that in writing. My thinking is, perhaps, to devise your own list of questions that you would like answered and request that they are answered independently by the sales person, manager and analyst re the condition of the dress. If I were to do this I would send my request while the dress is in transit - so that LK cannot 'alter' the condition of the dress before returning it to you, and so that LK cannot later accuse you of similar. I would also email LK and/myself a clear description of the condition of the dress when it was retained by the store, specifying the location and approximate of any marks. They may not respond to your request, but not doing so may raise its own questions and may look unfavourable. (Unless they have a process whereby all items returned for analysis are recorded, in written form or photographically). Did the receipt give a description of the marks and their size/location?

I guess while the issue continues to be a case of 'your word against thiers', the stalemate situation is likely to run on and on. I really feel for you and your frustration - you are already doing really well, and should applaud yourself for that.

I guess its more hurtful as LK are implying that you are dishonest. If you can prove that they have been inconsistent and disingenuous, they may revise thier position. While you remain committed to seeking rational and reasonable answers, you remain in a strong position. To be honest, right now, neither you or LK can actually PROVE that the damage occurred while in the possession of the other party. That's why I think you need to move this on to an issue of reasonableness and probability and push to show that their system, which places, the burden of proof on the customer is majorly flawed and press for them to grasp an unserstanding of this and for'goodwill' to prevail in your case. Such challenges can be a retailers nightmare, but i really hpe you dont give in on this.

Pls do your best to enjoy your 'break' and whatever you do - DONT ACCEPT A CREDIT NOTE! (Did you say they were initially prepared to exchange the item, but the resistence to returning the dress started when you requested a refund?

Am slow typer, so prob loads x-posts and way behind on discussion. SIA.

RenderedSpeechless, thanks very much. I did not think of doing that, so I am going to get on my computer now, and do just that.

You are right, if I can get it to them now, then they cannot accuse me of damaging said dress after I have got it.

The reciept I recieved basically says that 'customer brought dress back, dress has marks on it. Customer claims not to have worn the dress.' I insisted on having the word 'preexisting marks' on it, so they were clear of what I thought. Not that it would have made a difference. Nothing else.

Consumer Direct said I should have taken pictures of the damage before they took it, but to be honest, I was so stressed in the store, it took all my self control to just stay calm, let alone think of taking pictures.

I am definitely not going to accept a credit note. Doing so implies that I lied, and I did not lie. I acted within my rights with respect to the return. Plus, I do not trust LK Bennett now, so why would I give them £185 of my money anyways?

By the way, sorry but this is a more general question. I mentioned that I had posted about my experience on Mumsnet to my friend, and she said to be careful as the retailer could sue me for libel/ defamation.

Is that true and can they do it?

not if its true they can't