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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to leave my children in the car? Doctor who did this now on police and SS register...

123 replies

robberbutton · 04/08/2009 15:59

My friend told me today about a doctor who was placed on the police and social services register after leaving his 8 year old in the car while he went to the bank - HERE.

I was absolutely horrified - according to the story he did leave his kid for 20 mins, which was a long time and I've never left mine for that long, but I have left them - popping into the library to drop a book off, post office car park to pick up a parcel, chemists to pick up a prescription, petrol station to go and pay...

This is not horrendous, neglectful, social-services-warrenting behaviour, right? I have vivid childhood memories of being left in the car to wait while mum did similar errands, and of pushing all the buttons on the dashboard...

(PS - I know this story is a bit old, apologies if there's another thread about this, did look but couldn't find one.)

OP posts:
DollyPS · 04/08/2009 18:44

For the record here the police can take the details but its up to the PF and SS if they want to take it further. Not these 2 policemen as stated in the report.

Also it is not an offence to leave the kids anywhere unless the said police or SS say other wise and this is the grey area. As most parents dont leave their offspring anywhere.

As for leaving said child in car he wouldnt of noticed the police unless they chapped the window as he was playing his game.

I dont drive but H does and has been known to leave them in the motor and they know what to do if in trouble.

More to this than meets the eye or another scare mongering story so we hate the police and SS all the more when their jobs are hard enough.

Jaquelinehyde · 04/08/2009 18:46

Excellent post Dolly.

Mumcentreplus · 04/08/2009 18:47

I don't hate them I'm a civil servant also and I'm all for people doing their jobs..it's just a waste of time and money imo

Original poster
robberbutton · 04/08/2009 19:07

I know newspapers aren't known for their faithful respresentation of the truth, but that doesn't mean that there won't be circumstances like this one when the police (and SS etc) are going to completely over-react in order to be seen to be doing something about child-abuse.

OP posts:
Fayrazzled · 04/08/2009 19:12

Curiosity, you're reading the statute FAR too literally. The 1933 act actually states, "If any person who has attained the age of sixteen years and [has responsibility for] any child or young person under that age, wilfully assaults, ill-treats, neglects, abandons, or exposes him, or causes or procures him to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned, or exposed, in a manner likely to cause him unnecessary suffering or injury to health (including injury to or loss of sight, or hearing, or limb, or organ of the body, and any mental derangement), that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and shall be liable..."

I have added bold for emphasis. Arguably, leaving a 15 year old in the car while you pop into Tesco for 15 minutes is not wilful neglect or abandonment in a manner likely to cause harm! It would be nonsense to suggest so. There is a very small possibility of harm perhaps- say if another car crashed into your stationary car- but harm is certainly not likely in that scenario.
On the other hand, leaving your 4 year old home alone for a week while you swan off to Corfu clearly would be abandonment likely to cause harm.

In between there are a whole host of scenarios which may or may not be illegal within the Act; some of these situations will be governed by case law and it is for the court to decide if a crime has been committed.

But it is patently not the case that any time an under 16 is left without adult supervision his or her parent/carer could be prosecuted.

myredcardigan · 04/08/2009 19:15

Wasn't there a study once that said it was equally as dangerous to take your kids with you to pay for petrol as it could be to leave them in the car. That is why there is no signs advising you what to do.

From my POV, it is far, far more dangerous to lug 3 kids under 5 across a busy forecourt than it is to leave them locked in the car.

msled · 04/08/2009 19:20

It is mad that parents - especially mothers -are constantly being accused of being helicopter parents, yet this sort of thing happens the minute you let a perfectly sensible older child out of your sigh. madness.

oneopinionatedmother · 04/08/2009 19:26

Also it is not an offence to leave the kids anywhere unless the said police or SS say other wise and this is the grey area. As most parents dont leave their offspring anywhere

yes they do, every day this week there have been kids at the park without adults in sight.

i leave my kids in the car at the petrol station too! far safer than dragging baby & toddler over the forecourt....(as someone has already said)

as for risk of theft - ridiculous!

fwiw if you left your kid unattended, (as per QI) they would be 200000 years old before they would be likely to be abducted.

katiestar · 04/08/2009 19:33

So can we be prosecuted for the school transport provided by the LEA for secondary schools ie allowing children to travel to school on a service bus ?
What about benefit law changes forcing parents forcing parents to go out to work but not providing holiday childcare for over 11s?
All silly examples , like tghe one above which would be dismissed IF they were allowed to be heard in a court of law.But that's just the point .Some dozy or malicious plod, sw, hv , teacher can record detrails based on nothing more than their say so and tghis can affect people in the future if they for example wanted to adopt.There needs to be more openness and mechanisms for challenging these jobsworths.

oneopinionatedmother · 04/08/2009 19:41

also it occurs to me that in actual fact, your children are safer with you out of the car.

you are, as a parent, the most likely person to harm your child.

chegirl · 04/08/2009 19:58

Why is the fact that this parent is a doctor relevant?

Just wondering if the parent was a pregnant teenager, would the telegraph be so concerned?

Perhaps but I doubt it.

Personally I wouldnt leave my kids in a car for that long. Even if my oldest was with them. It would be carnage when I got back. There would probably be a crowd round the car after 10 mins

If the police are called doesnt everything have to be recorded? I have to call the police if someone I know does something. I know the police are not going to do anything but it will be logged.

I would think ss are busy sorting out child abusers and would be very at being bothered with this case.

But we will never know. Because we dont find out the real details of cases like this, the media are free to perpertrate the myth that all social workers are out to get well looked after children and ignore the ones in danger.

prettyfly1 · 04/08/2009 20:21

Oh for christs sake - this is bloody ridiculous. I am twenty seven so a mere nineteen years ago it was fine for me to go to the park near my mums flats completely unsupervised with friends and play for hours. At eleven we used to go to a nearby beach and have a fab time playing around. At eleven I also used to come home to make myself dinner and wait for my parents, and tidied the house on a saturday whilst my sisters were babysat next door. I loved it. These laws are fricking ridiculous and drive me to the point of insanity. Are there more paedophiles now then there were twenty years ago, or more nutters - no. I lived thirty miles away from where masses of children were slaughtered by a crazy gunman at dunblane. In class.

When will the state in this country realise that molly coddled, wrapped up in blankets chilren and frightened parents will not stop tragedies, or prevent accidents. It just ruins lives and childhoods. grrrrrrr.

shavenhaven · 04/08/2009 20:38

i left my 2dc (7&5) in the car today while i popped into tesco, i parked near the door then went to the drinks cooler at the start of the store to get some drinks and a sandwich before paying at the selfserve till and getting back out in under 2 mins, i am so glad that they are old enough that i can do this now.

beanieb · 04/08/2009 20:44

"But that's because the police did something in our local petrol station where they proved they could have stolen about 100 children (and cars) in a day whilst people went in without locking their cars or weren't looking so I'm paranoid."

they did WHAT! how very fucking stupid of them! I am completely shocked to hear that a police force would waste so much time scaring people shitless.

Will read the rest of the thread now

LovelyTinOfSpam · 04/08/2009 20:50

FWIW from previous posters the law was made in 1933, so has not changed recently to say children have to be supervised all the time.

What has changed is the reporting of incidents where the law is used, with the papers (I suspect) leaving bits out etc. to make us all hysterical.

Or maybe some agencies are exercising less common sense than they used to in the application of the law.

However I suspect it's the reporting that has changed.

RubberDuck · 04/08/2009 20:51

I think the doctor part is relevant because when he gets a CRB done then it'll be flagged - a potential career breaker, surely?!

Portofino · 04/08/2009 21:19

Tonight I stopped at the garage to buy petrol. Dd (5) was asleep. I left her there whilst I paid. The car was never out of my sight all the time.

We then stopped at a supermarket where i needed just to pop in to buy bin bags. I woke dd, who wanted to stay in the car. I told her she couldn't, then she spotted 2 older kids in the back of the next car and wanted to know why she couldn't stay in the car on her own for 5 mins.

What do you say to a 5 year old about risks and dangers without scaring them to death.? Thinking about it, the BIGGEST risk was not her being abducted from the car, but of something happening to me inside and noone knowing she was there, or there being a huge queue and her getting anxious that i hadn't come back quickly. Either way, NO way would I leave her out of sight for even 5 mins.

DollyPS · 04/08/2009 21:20

oneopinionatedmother I did say most parents hen not all parents.

Commmon sense hasnt been used here at all has it really.

SixtyFootDoll · 04/08/2009 21:31

This artocle is very misleading
The children have not been placed on the at risk register.
The Police found a child alone in a car on a hot day.
They have made a record of the incident - all incidents that Police attend are recorded somewhere - usually on a computer.
WHere there are concerns for safety they would probably have passed the details onto SS - in case there are other concerns.
The father would have been advised of this and I am sure this was the end of the matter.
It seems to me that the father is making a big deal of this , because he is a doctor and he is middle class and how dare PC Plod tell him tha he was wrong to leave his child in a car on a hot day.

RubberDuck · 04/08/2009 21:39

It will still get flagged in a CRB check thanks to the changes in the system after the Soham murders, that's the point (c.f. the earlier case of the Sunday School teacher referenced in the article).

K999 · 04/08/2009 21:57

So because he is a doctor means he cant be annoyed?? He is exercising his right as an individual and as a parent to question the police....so what if he is a doctor...and tbh I am sure that he probably knows better than the police about the risks of leaving a child in a car on a hot day.....I doubt it is becuase he thinks 'I am middle classed therefore I am better than the police.'

SixtyFootDoll · 04/08/2009 22:01

YEs but if he was mr average working class Joe it wouldnt have merited an article in the Torygraph would it?

SixtyFootDoll · 04/08/2009 22:02

ANd what if PC plod had seen the boy in the hot carand walked on by..
what if Dad didnt come back when he did and son became ill...
who would get it in the neck?
The Police Officer - for not doing anything about it?
Damned if you do....

Sidge · 04/08/2009 22:15

This has been totally misreported.

I imagine the police compiled a CYP report - these are made for any incident involving a young person where the police are involved. They are sent to Children's Services and other relevant authorities such as Health, Education. They are kept on file but as far as I know there is no "register" and it doesn't mean they are on a Child Protection Register. It won't affect a CRB check as there is no charge brought in this case. It is just a record of a situation where a child was deemed to be at risk and intervention was required.

Whether the police should have intervened is the debatable issue - but then their job is to ensure the safety of the public. A child in a possibly locked car in hot weather with no adult in sight could be seen as being at risk.

msled · 04/08/2009 22:19

I don't agree it has been misreported. I think it was reported very accurately.
Sidge says " imagine the police compiled a CYP report - these are made for any incident involving a young person where the police are involved. They are sent to Children's Services and other relevant authorities such as Health, Education. They are kept on file but as far as I know there is no "register" and it doesn't mean they are on a Child Protection Register. It won't affect a CRB check as there is no charge brought in this case. It is just a record of a situation where a child was deemed to be at risk and intervention was required."

But he WASN'T at risk at all. So there should be no question about keeping anything on file. It is a total invasion of this family's privacy to send an official report to all and sundry when THERE WAS NO CRIME AND NO RISK AND NO INTERVENTION WAS REQUIRED. I would be angry too.