Or is it unreasonable to complain about overcrowding in free accommodation?

[SomeGuy]

Just caught end of local news, they had a feature about overcrowding in London council housing. They showed a council flat, not quite sure how big it was, but it was occupied by three generations of an Asian Muslim family (a couple were wearing jilbabs), 8 in all, but apparently they count as 6 1/2 people for overcrowding because children under 1 don't count (not sure where the 1/2 comes from).

Anyway my wife's response was 'if they don't like it, they should go back where they came from' (DW is an immigrant, and shared a bed with her sister growing up - they had 7 people in two bedrooms, some would sleep on mats on the floor), given that much worse/more cramped conditions are I'm sure completely normal where they came from. If DW's parents had they wanted a bigger house they'd have to pay for it, though they'd tend to spend the money expanding their business rather than home improvements.

They had an exterior shot of the flat, which is very prime real estate, central London, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds to buy, or several thousand per month on the open market.

Apparently Boris has promised to half overcrowding in 20 years, but it seems odd to me, obviously a family of 8 is fairly normal in Afghanistan/wherever (in large part because they don't see personal space as so important and so you can fit a lot of people in to a small place) but it really doesn't fit into central London, especially not when the taxpayer is footing the bill.

My parents live in a 3 bed house, for 5 people, we were overcrowded as a family of 6. They were offered a 4 bed house when we were younger but the rooms were smaller so we stayed put. Didn't bother us.

You don't decide what is fair or decent treatment based on where somebody's come from surely? That would mean having different criteria for basic needs depending on previous experience, that's just ridiculous!

If these people are within our system then they should be treated the same as anyone else in the same system, there should be no hierarchy.

I might be a bit of a hippy at heart but I see everybody as citizens of the world and think the obsession with borders and ownership of land is very sad and causes many of the world's problems. If white British people who were born here would not be accommodated in such a way then neither should Asian settlers.

someguy, are you asking a question in your OP or just stating what your wife thinks?

this is a serious question btw.

Expat...my friend was told to put a curtain up in her kitchen so her 14 year old son could sleep in it!

I dont really know how I feel on this one...When you see a family saying how cramped they are, been living in those conditions for 3 years but 3 of the 4 kids are under 3, it does make me wonder.

Obviously we cant generalise, but we dont have an unlimited supply either.

When we were living overseas I applied for a visa for DW and DS to come here.

It was refused because we'd been living overseas, and even though I'm British I could not bring my wife and child home with me,

I had to come back to England on my own, find a job, find a house (that was big enough), pay many hundreds of pounds in visa fees, prove that I could support DW and DS for my salary, prove that we had a genuine relationship, etc.

Her passport was stamped with 'no recourse to public funds', which means not allowed to benefits (otherwise DW and DS could have been deported).

Human rights? Didn't apply for us. It's not true that this is just the way things are in England.

And what soccermum said is right, we couldn't afford a second child for a long time, that's why DD is 5 years younger than DS.

DW has a poor background yes, but she's certainly not racist, her experience her whole life was that whatever you want you work for and earn.

The level of cheerfulness in crowded contitions in Asia is irrelevent to British council housing policy.

Um, perhaps they've got more than 2 children because it's against their religion to use contraceptives.

'Obviously we cant generalise, but we dont have an unlimited supply either. '

The trouble is, there is next to no supply.

And private rental is a poor alternative due to its insecurity and lack of regulation.

Yes, Thatcher touched it off by selling off council housing stock and not allowing councils to use the profit to build more social housing or even maintain what they had in good order.

But Labour didn't help by a) not reversing the right to buy policy b) fuelling a huge housing bubble c) never reversing any of the changes made to private rental tenancies.

Yes, and? I came to the UK under the same visa, as did a number of people on this board. My landlord's daughter also had to return to the UK and get a job and a flat and leave her spouse behind, whereupon he had to re-apply for the visa (and pay the fee again).

What has the immigration process for spouses of UK nationals to do with the definition of over-crowding with regards to social housing?

Famishedlass - I suppose that could be the case, but you know its against my religion to use contraception, but the church wouldnt pay me to bring up all thes extra kids I would have if I didnt use any.

Maybe the couple had triplets or quads

Oh, and she had no recourse to public funds. For a period of two years.

You, however, as a British national had full entitlement and could claim any benefit on behalf of your son, who would have been entitled to British nationality on account of his parentage.

I just noticed I got your name wrong, I added an 'l'...sorry!

don't worry, I'm both a famishedass and a famishedlass.

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nellynaemates: the thing is six bed social housing simply doesn't exist, so you end up with absurd situations like this: www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/article43731.ece

It's basically impossible to have that many kids in central London, unless you are a millionaire or overcrowded.

The Afghan fertility rate is 6.6 per woman, which works quite well in Afghanistan (in poor countries children provide security), but Britain isn't designed for it, and nor is it IMO reasonable to redesign it for it.

yeah but perhaps when they had their kids they could afford them and then their circumstances changed. It happens, and you can't send kids back can you!

Hey I know, anyone who lives in social housing should agree to having the children culled. Like the deer in Richmond Park when they overbreed and cause a nuisance.

Yes, that's the answer. Culling.

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was going to post a sensible response - but see other reliable regulars on such threads are here.

Instead I'll just say

FIL is staying -

He's used to just eating one meal a day and hand washing his clothes

I'll just give him one meal tomorrow and point him in the direction of the bath tub......

Then at least he'll be doing what's normal for him in his home country

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MissSunny

Those people that eligible for normal social housing (asylum housing contrary to popular belief is a separate housing "stock") do follow the same rules.

A homeless, jobless British person will be just as high up the list as a home, jobless immigrant.

My mum is a housing officer and she has just been on a training course. It basically was a day learning how to politely tell people not to bother putting themselves on the housing list. There is pretty much no social housing left.

She hates her job now, loved it 25 yrs ago. She is counting the days until retirement.

Why do you think you do not have human rights? Did the Asian, Muslim Afghanistans not have to satisfy any entry requirements?

How do you know?

Of course its annoying for people to live in limited housing and have lots of kids and then moan about not having enough room. But fail to see why its more annoying for this family to do it then any other.

I think this thread is crap and I am fed up with the bloody internet. I just keeps reminding me of things I would rather ignore.

'It's people in hard situations that then have baby after baby and demand larger houses which are just not available! It's just so irresponsible. being in temp. accomodation or overcrowded is surely reason enough to try and not have a few more kids at that time!'

how do you know if this is actually the situation of anyone who is overcrowded?

loads of those who are overcrowded are families fleeing domestic violence shoved into absurd temporary housing.

not demanding a huge house.