'cos I really don't know anymore, and I have to tell exMIL something tonight, but what?

[AnarchyAunt]

DD's dad left us 4 years ago. He now has 3 DC by 3 women, and doesn't see any of them regularly, speak to any of the mothers, or support any of his DC at all in any way. Never has done. Any access he has to DD(6) is arranged and enabled by rather domineering exMIL (who says I need to accept this all as he is a 'free spirit'). He refuses to speak to me at all even if he sees me out and about, and won't give me his phone number.

ATM he is living with his parents as he has some mental health issues and has recently broken his shoulder in some sort of accident. He is very paranoid, can be very reckless, spends weeks not speaking to/seeing anyone, doesn't eat for extended periods, takes to his bed every now and then for days on end, refuses to discuss this with anyone or get any treatment. This has been going on and off for years but has got worse recently.

He was taken to A&E by a friend (who passed this news onto me) when he broke his shoulder the other week the staff insisted on a mental health assessment before treating his injury. Ex refused, left without treatment, and vanished into the night. Turned up at his parents three days later and they managed to get him back to hospital. Since then he has had mental health workers visiting him at his parents house. No idea what they are saying/doing/prescribing and unlikely to find out.

ExMIL rang last night to say they'd like to come and visit DD on Sunday, and would it be ok for her to go and stay the week after. I have said Sunday is fine but I will let her know tonight about going to stay. I do not want ex to have any access until I am satisfied he is safe to be around DD and she will not be put in any danger or distressed. ExPIL cannot be trusted to tell me the truth - when she rang, exMIL wasn't going to mention whats been going on at all. She only admitted to it when she realised I knew, and didn't tell me any more details when I asked. She says ex is 'fine' but clearly he is not. If DD goes to stay with them she will be with ex as well as he is living there. She'd love to see him btw and misses him a lot. She thinks he has forgotten her and says it feels like she doesn't have a daddy anymore (unprompted).

AIBU if I say that exPIL can visit on Sunday but not ex? And that ex has to start demonstrating his ability to be a safe and consistent presence in DD's life before he can see her again? Or is that basically vindictive and unreasonable? I have been dealing with this for so long I no longer have any idea what is right

Thanks everyone. I posted in AIBU because I genuinely needed to know if I was, and it seems I am not. Big relief.

Now am having a nice cold cider and preparing my script for talking to exMIL. Previous experience is these calls go best when I know exactly what I want to say and can get off the phone as soon as I have said it.

Am going to tell her they (exPIL) are welcome to visit on Sunday and that I'd be happy to set a regular day for them to visit DD here. They take her out for the day so I wouldn't have to deal with them for long. However ex cannot come with them, or see DD except at a contact centre with professional supervision. DD cannot go to stay unless a court orders it and I think that is unlikely until ex makes some big changes.

Sound ok?

Good plan having a script BUT - can you be sure they'll follow the regulations you've put in place, and that DD won't see ex, if they take her out?

If they take her out for the day, do they take her to see her Dad? How would you stop them. I think I'd bite the bullet and have them round at your house, but wouldn't want them to take her out..... The rest sounds fine to me though.

Well, we live 100 miles from them so they'd have a job in the 4 hours they take her out for! I would have to trust them not to bring him and stash him round the corner, true, but DD is pathologically incapable of keeping that kind of secret. I wouldn't ask her btw, it'd just burst out of her.

Really, in case anyone thinks this is the case, I dont have an issue with a parent with mental health issues seeing their child. But I think he needs to stop being in denial, to communicate about it, and to get proper treatment first.

Anarchy - that sounds good. Think you need to think through and decide what action to take if they don't follow the rules. They may well disobey you and take her to see her dad but your daughter will tell you if they do and you do need to give them every opportunity to do the right thing. It would be very difficult for you to only allow them to see your daughter in your house. Letting them take her out is reasonable and proves you are trusting them and not being unreasonably controlling. You need to make sure you talk to your daughter about your plans too so nothing takes her by surprise - this'll be the hardest part I'd guess!

YA Def NBU

anarchy - that isnt unreasonable - mental health issues happen, we all know that but your job is to safeguard your child from it until he chooses to get well. Freespirit my arse.

YANBU - you are being amazingly strong and reasonable - sorry have no advice to give but hugs xxx

He is not a free spirit, he is a worthless, feckless, nut job who impregnates women then leaves everyone else to raise his children.

Do not let your child go and stay with him EVER

I agree with the last poster. And really, when his mum has moments of clarity, as she must, she must realise that this isn't ever 'grandmother's' dream. It's not ideal, and I bet she pushes those thoughts away, as it's easier to criticise you.

My xmil lost it with me when I suggested that she come with her son to visit the children instead of trying to arrange separate visits. The real reason she ate the face off ME was because she didn't KNOW her son was coming, and when I suggested that he could certainly afford to pay for her flight too, that must have struck a chord, as he doesn't contribute a penny. But she honestly believes that I have wronged her poor son. Or does she? I suspect she has moments of clarity which scare her, so she doesn't dare think it through properly.

Yes that sounds good, i would probably add in somehtintg about the fact that until you are certain of the treatment/his state of mind then this is the most you are willing to offer. If she wants to move this to more she needs to be trusted and that invloves telling you whats going on.

Good luck

Oh well I spoke to her and it went better than I expected, in that she just said 'oh right' and then hung up

I dont know if this will help but...

My DS is adopted. From within the family. One of the many reasons we adopted him was to enable his b.mum to have regular contact. This was incredibly important to me. I felt he would benefit from it and I wanted her to have the chance. I didnt want her punished for not being able to care for him.

We honestly did everything we could to facilitate this. We tried and tried and tried to make allowances for her.

It got to the point where I could no longer see any benefit for DS. Contact was not in his interests at all. I did not feel he would be safe (mentally) as she refused to but his needs and feelings first. She would not turn up or come really late. She would play power games , not answering her phone etc. She would turn up at contacts if there was a promise of some sort of special attention i.e her birthday, christmas. She began to send cards telling him not to forget she was his only mummy and she couldnt wait to get him back etc (she had never had sole care of him and he lived with us from 8 weeks).

Anyway - much as I wanted this idealised relationship between son and birth mother, it wasnt happening. It was painful to admit it wasnt working and would be damaging to continue. It was social services that made the decision in the end, barring all contact including letters. They did this after meetings and letters and phone calls trying to get b.mother to co operate.

So, for now, he doesnt see her. Because there would be no benefit for HIM. And that is what is important. As much as I empathise with someone not being able to see their child, an adult is not my responsiblity, my son IS.

I hope your EX can sort himself out and that one day he can have a good enough relationship with his DD.

My dp and i split up and 6 weeks later he had a psychotic episode and was sectioned.

I did not let him see our children on his own for ages and when he started being unreasonable (and his family were enabling him to be, as in your situation) i went to a solicitor as i felt i could not trust them to be supervising him properly and wanted to know where i stood regarding contact.

For a while i was completely in the dark about his condition and current state and felt i could not make a safe decision about whether he could see the children as i didn't know all the facts. I didn't feel like it was worth the risk and, until he and his family cooperated, i stuck to my guns. Was hard and i felt sorry for the children but knew i was acting in their best interests and putting their safety first.

Think you are doing the right thing.

chegirl I have seen your posts about your DS before and I absolutely understand the thing about idealising a relationship. I have had for so so long this idea that if I carry on being reasonable, doing what I can to accommodate very unreasonable people, making sure DD sees her dad despite my own personal misgivings - surely it'll turn out for the best? But nope. Doesn't work like that - I can't make the effort for ex. If he can't face up to his issues then he will not be seeing DD.

LaaDeDa - I am going to see a solicitor next week. Ex does not have PR as DD was born before the law changed. I'm thanking god for small mercies there believe me.

There's just no way to make the decision when you are not given the facts is there? And so the default position has to be to guarantee DD's safety which is after all the only thing that really matters.

I am telling DD that her GPs will visit her on Sunday but that daddy is not well at the moment so won't be coming.

This must be really hard for you. I kept examining my motives over and over. Was I being vindictive? Was I using this as an excuse to cut b.mum out of DS's life? I had to trust myself. I KNEW more than anything that I wanted what was best for my boy.

Also I am not saying 'never' and nor are you. We are saying 'when/if its safe' 'When its best for our child'

Write that down, you will probably need to remind yourself of it when Ex, Pils and solicitors are accusing you of being spiteful and unreasonable

AnarchyAunt - that's all i did - just told them that daddy was poorly and needed peace and quiet. Dd is physically unable to be quiet for any time at all so could well accept that reason!
Mine were a bit younger than your dd though so may be a little easier to explain it to her. Mental illness is bluddy hard to explain to any age child though - they want to see the 'poorly'! Especially cos the person looks exactly the same but can be acting in a very strange and scary way - scary for an adult so must be completely baffling for a child.