to think these girls were a bit mean to my dd (2.10) in the park today?

[minxofmancunia]

dd is very sociable far more so than me, she always approaches other children to talk to them, very confident.

got on the roundabout today with 2 girls of about 4/5 years old, tried talking to them they stared at her and ran off, didn't really bother me as they were only little. Then they teamed up with a few other girls who they obviously know a bit older prob 6ish? and all got on the roundabout together. everytime dd trid to get on they went deliberaetly fast so she couldn't make it in time and one of them said "quick go fast so she can't get on with us" meaning dd. dd looked so longing and hopeful, she just wanted to be included, broke my heart a bit .

then they got off and started cycling around, dd followed them on her scooter saying "hello hello" but everytime she got near they tore off laughing. dh was with her at the time, even he who's far less senisitive than me said he wished one of them would just answer her or smile at her or something, he said he felt they were quite rude and nearly said something. As did I re the roundabout as in "that's not very nice" but I held my tongue. Their mums were near and didn't once say "say hello to the little girl" or "let her have a turn".

Upset me too much probably, I was incredibly shy as a child, didn't really have eny friends and was often deliberately excluded, made my school years miserable. Cannot stand the thought of the same thing happening to dd.

I suppose it's life though and an early initiation into the nasty bitchy world that is groups of girls/women on occassion.

On a brighter note dd didn't seem bothered and had a good go on the roundabout when they'd gone with a lovely boy, obviously quite a bit older than her but chatted to her and took the time to spin her round and play with her .

minx - the 'older girl knew what she was doing' and 'even dh thought she was being catty'.

She was 6, ffs. When your dd is 6 I think you'll probably understand how really young that is.

Aw, stuff like that is really hurtful to see, even if you remind yourself that 4 and 5yos are still little themselves and sometimes lacking in social graces.

But my ds, who has just turned 6, would have loved your little one joining in and done his best to entertain him! And over the years I've had loads of older children happily entertaining ds - there ARE plenty of kids who will be kind to little ones.

But I think it's less likely when there is a group of older kids and one little one - almost like they would be embarrassed to step out of the peer group in front of everyone.

Agree with the tips here about how to deal with it.

uriel, i remember being 6 only too well and consistently being laughed at and left out of things by other 6 year old girls. I also work with children iknow what groups of girls can be like and I do think 6 is old enough to say "hello" and be kind, not neccessarily play with her for ages but to be kind.

i've seen 6 year old children show consideration to little ones in mixed ages groups of children, it's not really so hard, depends on their upbringing i suppose and whther they get pulled up on things.

claireybee so sorry to hear that sounds awful, the parents should have said something, unfortunately a lot of the time they don't, you can see how this kind of teasing develops over the years.

I think it's not very "nice" but fairly normal behaviour by older children. At that age I would consider the supervising parents to be the ones to blame, the one thing I would come down on DS like a tons of bricks over is any behaviour that smacks of bullying.

i do agree totalchaos i thin that's what surprised me most tbh, the total lack of intervention by the parents, well mums. all they had to say was "let the little girl get on too" or "say hello to the little girl she's talking to you"

i don't think it's fair that other kids playing together should have to change their game to accomodate an unrelated toddler. I wouldn't allow them to bully her but equally i think it's your responsibility to ensure that your baby doesn't interfere with other childrens games.

minx - sorry about your bad experiences. I still think it's unrealistic to expect 4/5 and maybe a 6 yo to interact with a 2 yo.

Also, maybe the children were just tall for their age and look much older than they are? Mine are tall and strangers have always thought they're much older than they are, purely because of their size.

I had one woman swear at them in the park because she thought they were too old to use the equipment. They were the same age, just different sizes, with the same emotional development, or lack of it!

not a baby nearly 3 able to communicate and play to a certain level.

if they'd been on the roundabout first i'd have distracted her but it was all v deliberate as in "she's here, quick make sure she can't get on" whilst involving a few other little ones, not much older than her. then there was the waiting til she got near, looking round staring at her and then laughing in her face when she said hello.

if they'd just plain ignored her I don't think i would have been bothered, don't expect children of this age to have fantastic socila skills, but if groups of children club together and engage in behaviours that are purposefully excluding then that warrants intervention by the parents.

i know aht yuo're saying uriel, that's just the thing though, everyone thinks dd is older than she is she's v tall, has lots of hair and uses quite complex sentences when chatting. Not me bragging, but several parents and professionals have commented on her language skills. I try not to be too "my dds advanced" about it but the level of her conversation is sometimes quite striking.

I suppose all children and their parents are different and have differing expectations, but i will say something in future if i think there's any bullying going on.

'not a baby nearly 3 able to communicate and play to a certain level.'

Difference in perception, to my children that would class as a baby, and behaviour modification expected from them on a grand scale.
4/5 is reception age, going to Big School, not a baby any more. I wonder how often reception children have had that distinction made to them and regretted it?
I don't think there is going to be much common ground here to be honest, just lots of different opinions that is the variety of Mumsnet.
It's tough for older children...8+ or oldest child when everything is filtered through what is acceptable for the youngest. OK for a while, but in some relationships the balance is unreasonable. That's why we zone our playground at school, so if the older ones want to play fast and physical they can, without running down a 5 year old.

Nearly 3 is a baby when compared to 6yos.

You need to let this go, your DD will be rejected by other children some times. It happens to all kids, you need to teach her to shake it off.

my dd is all clucky about little dc unless they're stomping on a mud castle she's built. I think trips to the park are always a bit fraught because of this kind of thing.

i agree with morloth here- you can't cosset your kids into thinking they are the best at everything/everyone loves them and finds them fascinating-it's sort of setting them up for a fall.
whilst we should encourage them in all they want to do they also need a sense of perspective (IMHO) that actually they do have to wait to talk as their conversation whilst interesting (to me) is not any more interesting than anything anyone else has to say, that not everyone will want to be their friend just as they might not want to be everyone's friend.

I'm surprised neither of you took her away from the situation when it was obvious they didn't want her near them. As soon as they made it clear they didn't want her on the roundabout I would have taken her away onto something else saying 'I think they want to go too fast for you' or something like that.

Older children can get quite annoyed at younger ones and following them around on the scooter would have driven my dds and their friends mad! They don't understand that all they have to do is respond and say 'Hello' back. As the other mother I probably would've expected you to distract her instead of letting her get rejected every time.

How would you have felt if the other parent had come up to you and asked you to stop your child bothering her DD and her friends?
Pointing out that they were having fun and didn't want to have to include an unknown pre-schooler in their games?

Oops, at 2.10 does she count as a pre-schooler?
Probably not.

minx your DD sounds lovely & i think you should be very proud of her social skills imo those children are old enough to know they were acting mean towards her & it would have been nice for their parents to ask them to include your DD at least onto the roundabout , but it has been my experience that parents like to ignore their dc's bad behaviour ,
my DD (3.6) is starting Montessori in sept & like your DD she is very friendly & chatty & soft & even though she is only 3 she is very aware of smaller children's feelings , so at 4/5 & even 6 they know right from wrong .

i don't think anyone is suggesting minxes dd is not lovely-just that it doesn't do any harm to introduce a 'pecking order' if you like at an early age.There was no reason for those children to accomodate an unknown toddler into their game-it might have been nice if they had but they certainly weren't unreasonable in not wanting to entertain her dd.

minx's dd sounds like a perfectly normal 2 year old, whom she is proud of.
Don't understand why what the other children did is seen as bad behaviour, or nasty and bitchy or bullying. They are young children happily playing in the park.
The boy was probably old enough to be amused by her, my son is fascinated by under fives and studies them like wildlife when he's around them.

"my son is fascinated by under fives and studies them like wildlife when he's around them. "

Mine does that too!

Females are bitchy it is in their genetic make up and starts at a young age.
Some are better hiding it then others though

There;s no need for children to be mean, to older, younger or whatever children. But then again there's no saying they have to play with toddlers when they're school age. I always think better of children who involve younger children, good parenting in my book.

Children are mean, most if not all at some point. Trick is to teach our children how to deal with meanness, rise above it, clever words whatever gets them through and then to teach them not to be mean, to empathise, involve and be kind to other children.

Having children of both of the OP's ages I think I would have avoided the big girls.

And I would not be bothered if my dc wasn't, wasted energy.

I can't believe that people think the DCs were being mean-they were having fun with their friends and didn't even think of icluding a toddler. Small DCs often just like watching anyway-they learn a lot from watching older ones. If 13yr olds are in the park you wouldn't expect them to include a 9 yr old who is friendly. At 3/4/5 mine used to watch older DCs kicking a ball around in the park-I didn't expect them to play with my small DCs, however friendly, it wasn't the reason they had gone to the park!

lost of big girls hate hanging round with little girls. it truly cramps their style. heartbreaking but a fact of life i am afraid!!