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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be furious at suggestions that show jumping/x country is cruel?

86 replies

MitchyInge · 14/07/2009 19:57

grrrrrr! put up some pictures on another forum to celebrate the launch of my international show jumping career (starting at a small village show, haha) and someone said 'poor horses, that makes me feel very uncomfortable'

my horse LOVES to jump, he is much more competitive than me!

aibu to want to stab her in the face with a hoof pick?

OP posts:

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 20:21

redclover- that is awful. I love the riding school I go to now because the owner is so into understanding the horses and really explains their individual characters and what they can do/can't do etc.

Biccy · 14/07/2009 20:24

Firstly, I am not against show jumping.. while I'm not a rider, it is in my blood and I really wish I had the chance... but, I would like to ask a question: would a horse in the wild actually choose to jump something as high as the jump in that picture? It does look a bit 'unnatural' (no judgement on cruelty implied)...

Podrick · 14/07/2009 20:29

Actually I owned several horses as a child. As an adult I am of the opinon that riding horses is exploitative. I don't think my pov is definitive but it is hardly unreasonable.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 20:29

I did get some Dartmoor ponies to jump that vertically recently in my car. Although it was more of a jump then scramble (up a bank) so yes I think they will. They couldn't jump that high without training though as I doubt they would have the strength.

I rode a horse called Biccy once for a year. It had killed someone!

redclover79 · 14/07/2009 20:30

I know saintly, I go cold even thinking about the place now. Happy to report that I've never heard of anything so awful happening anywhere else, but AFAIK the place is still in business, really hope it got sold on.
On a happier note my own pony loved to jump almost as much as he loved mud and was kept at a fantastic yard, never carried a whip but often wished for brakes!

KingCanuteIAm · 14/07/2009 20:33

Podrick, in what way do you mean it is exploitive? Genuine Q not a dig or an attempt to start a fight.

FiveGoMadInDorset · 14/07/2009 20:34

I did no someon who wrapped copper wire around the pole attached to a battery and then rapped them. My horses on the other hand would jump if they want to and not if they didn't and that was fine by me.

ABetaDad · 14/07/2009 20:35

Biccy - good point about very high fences. I do not like to watch the puissance at the Horse of the Year Show.

I do have severe reservations about say the Grand National. I live in a house overlooking a race course and am quite happy to watch the races over hurdles and lower fences but not the fences at Aintree. Show jumping and cross country is fine.

I used to like cross country and jumping myself both on and off a horse.

KingCanuteIAm · 14/07/2009 20:37

There certainly were some awful practices in the past, luckily most of these have moved on now. There are always a rotten few who give everyone else a bad name, the same is found in work with dogs and most other animals, vunerable people and so on.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 20:38

That's awful to Five. I can't help thinking you won't get the best out of a horse if you treat them that way.

Luckily with clicker training becoming more well known in animal training I think the idea of positive reinforcement if spreading slowly and hopefully there will only be a handful of dinosaurs left using negative techniques.

Biccy · 14/07/2009 20:55

Thanks *saintly8, should I name change? Was it first degree murder, or manslaughter?

I don't really understand how you got some Dartmoor ponies to jump and scramble up a vertical bank in your car... getting some great thellwellesque images in my mind though...

Podrick · 14/07/2009 20:57

I mean that the rider calls the shots not the horse. The horse is there to further the ambitions of the rider. Horses would be content to live inthe wild and would not court man to ride them. Therefore I think peole are exploiting horses by riding them. I have no pets and I am of the opinon that keeping pets is exploitative. I wouldn't expect everyone to Agree with this point of view but I think it is hardly unreasonable.

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 20:58

I was driving - on Dartmoor of course - , they were in the road, they scrambled (they didn't need to I was driving slowly).

Biccy (ex-racehorse, quite highyl strung) kicked his owner in the head! So the school had passed onto his brother who forgot to tell me this until my last lesson. lol.

Biccy · 14/07/2009 21:03

And, if you train a horse so it can jump as high as that grey in the picture, do you have to keep it in a field with really really really high fences?

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 21:06

good point. You need to keep llamas behind really high fences. They sort of jump on 4 legs. Most odd.

Original poster

MitchyInge · 14/07/2009 21:07

I get the idea behind pet keeping as exploitative, although I think it's the other way around really - they exploit our need for the many amazing benefits of being around animals in return for food, shelter etc; weren't the domesticated species pretty much self-selecting originally?

That is hilarious about biccy the ex-racehorse though, I feel a bit cold just imagining riding a killer horse although it was probably not his fault?

OP posts:

saintlydamemrsturnip · 14/07/2009 21:08

He was a loopy horse. Far too good for me to be riding. But I don't think I exploited him, he was in complete control!

Original poster

MitchyInge · 14/07/2009 21:17

I like a bit of loopiness. It might be safer to ride the equine equivalent of a golden retriever but not very exciting?

Oh dear. How can I be sure I'm not unwittingly engaging in animal cruelty?

OP posts:

Rindercella · 14/07/2009 21:28

Haha - my first pony used to exploit me. If he didn't want to do something he would get me off. Would he do that in the middle of a nice big field? Would he hell. I used to end up in ditches, in muck heaps, in barbed wire fences, etc. Character building it was called That same pony even managed to give the vet a good kicking when he had to eventually be put down at the grand old age of 32. I was so pleased as the vet was a miserable old bugger

So, on the whole I don't think that riding or jumping is cruel. However, some people in the world of show jumping are cruel - I worked for an Italian show jumper (not words you usually associate together ) and he was a cruel bastard. I have seen evidence in the past of British riders employing the lovely techinque of racking in the past. Now that is cruel.

Original poster

MitchyInge · 14/07/2009 21:47

heh, a lovely story bet you remember him fondly despite it all

I know there are still too many people employing some pretty inhumane methods, but even without going all 'natural horsemanship' how can it be cruel to form such an amazing partnership with your horse and have so much fun together? and I KNOW he has fun!

OP posts:

DesperateHousewifeToo · 14/07/2009 21:54

So, do you think that all horses should be released ino the wild Podrick?

Most of them would die as they would not be able to eat enough calories to keep them going.

A hardy breed like New Forest or dartmoor pony would probably be ok but let a thoroughbred out and he would not last long, imho.

We used to have horses that would jump fences if they wanted to get to the other side for grass, playmates, etc

pranma · 14/07/2009 22:00

Our pony used to jump a line of straw bales set up as a practise jump-he did it as soon as he was turned out into the paddock-every time he'd give a little buck and jump the bales before settling to graze.He was so loved by all of us-he did dressage under sufferance but was a Pony Club champion at x-country.

Rindercella · 14/07/2009 22:04

I do have very fond memories of him and was very sad the day he died. I still have the rosettes (over 300) we won together - including many from show jumping Had to give up the jumping though as I was very tall and he was very small (12.2) and I was the one who knocked the fences over with my feet! But just goes to show, he loved jumping

thumbwitch · 14/07/2009 22:08

Hmm, think I am a fence sitter here because although I see no problem with show jumping (with riders who know what they're doing) or cross country a la Badminton etc. I loathe the steeplechase races, in particular The Grand National and won't give it airtime.

I started riding at the age of 7 and fully agree that it is VERY hard to make a horse do what it doesn't want to - if a horse doesn't want to jump or has no aptitude for jumping, then guess what! It won't go far as a show jumper and won't be "made" to do it.

Having said that there are riders who are brutal, sometimes because they are inept and sometimes because they are inhumane - I would hope any evidence of mis-treatment of horses at events would result in disqualification, banning and a visit from the RSPCA or police.

QuelleSodMaMingeEstItchy · 14/07/2009 22:11

but anyway what do we think of SIDEWAYS showjumping?

I messed up my approach line into a jump earlier and turned him a little too late (intending to go round and start again) but he jumped it anyway at a very impressive but stupid angle.

I want to pioneer Fancy Sideways Show Jumping as a whole new field of equestrian endeavour

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