... to think the Home Office is trying to extort ££ by threatening my baby

[notlost]

First, I am not British and neither is DH (not a sin, believe it or not), but we are indefinitely settled in London and DD was born here. Since we are not British she cannot have a British passport, regardless of where she was born, so we got her an American one. Now the Home Office is saying that since she is "declared American" we need to get her a visa that is EXACTLY the same as ours - that's right, an ADULT work permit, to the tune of £585.

AND THEY WANT TO COLLECT MY 6 MONTH OLD BABY'S FINGERPRINTS AND DNA FOR THEIR F-ING DATABASE AND MAKE HER CARRY ONE OF THOSE BIOMETRIC ID CARDS.

They have told me I have to do this within the next two months or risk her being deported and a permanent black mark on her immigration record.

Isn't it enough for them that we have to pay the same taxes as everyone else, but don't get access to any kind of public benefits (including the child tax credit)? Wasn't it enough for them to make DH and I pay £600 for PERMISSION to get married? Why do they have to treat my baby like a criminal??

I wish I could complain to my MP, but as a foreigner I'm not eligible to vote and am therefore no-one's constituent.

Do you have 'INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN' stamped in your passport.

If so none of what you are complaining about applies.

If not, you are here are work visas and need to comply by the rules.

YABU

Um, Slug, you don't disappoint me. The Home Office cannot insist you get married or even advise it. Fact of the matter is that if you read the UK passport application, it's fairly clear how one obtains citizenship.

Both my DCs are both British and American, and I'm not married to British DP. DS is just over a year, so wasn't that long ago.

Expat -- yup. You're right. Have scheduled the citizenship test for next month Am memorizing chronological order of: St David, St Andrew, St George and St Patrick

NotLost - you are not being unreasonable, but then again, nor is ExpatinScotland - choosing to live away from home is exactly that - a choice, and there is good and bad in everything. You are entitled to speak to your MP about this, whether you work or not. And I recommend that you do, as often an MP's letter accompanying a visa/residence application carries a bit of weight. Re the NHS, as I understand it, in the USA you don't have this anyway, and require private insurance? So you are no worse off in that respect. Good luck - I hope it works out for you!

Sorry - meant to say "whether you vote or not" - NOT "work or not"! Clearly have not left the office behind today........!

How much are they charging now for the Knowledge of Life in the UK test, ilove?

It was £35 when I took it, but that was a few years ago now, and then all you get is this certificate when you leave to enclose with your naturalisation application.

You can use the National Checking Service for your app if you don't want to submit your passports and stuff, but it's about an extra £40.

Thanks, Jillydix

I didn't mean for the thread to dissolve into a back and forth about benefits and whatnot, honest. I really only mentioned benefits because it seems like the Home Office just wants more ££ at every turn and it seemed weird to need a work permit for a baby (as the border agent told me, which I have now discovered is not quite true) and the upset mom in me was wondering when it would be enough.

TBH I thought I had left that "you're foreign and have no right to complain about anything" sort behind in the US (not you, but OH my FIL is one of those... makes me want to pull my eyeballs out).

it's a visa for dependents of work permit holders, technically. which is needed because the child is required to have a visa to reside in the UK.

did your spouse's employer not cover the cost of his work permit? i have two friends who came on work permits originally and their employers paid for their permits (they came with no dependents)?

the cost, tbh, is acutally low compared with other Western countries.

notlost "TBH I thought I had left that "you're foreign and have no right to complain about anything" sort behind in the US (not you, but OH my FIL is one of those... makes me want to pull my eyeballs out). "

I actually kind of agree with this sentiment. Unless you are willing to commit to living here permanently I am not sure we do have the right to complain about much.

The UK is doing us a favour by allowing us to live/work here and they get to dictate the terms. Sure it can sometimes be a PITA but that is the way it goes.

let's face it, everywhere you go, if you work, you're going to have to pay tax to the government.

Have not read whole thread but, notlost, if you and your husband have ILR and the baby was born in the UK while you had that status, then she should be eligible for UK citizenship.

link here

Therefore no need for the fingerprints and all that crap.

FWIW I agree with you that the fees are extortionate, and that fingerprinting a baby is stupid, but you should know too, firstly that the biometric requirements are something begun in the US after 9/11 and also that US fees are even higher.

I had to get a visa to go to the states and it was a shit fest of time wasting and expense. So after six weeks of messing about I go to the embassy spend 3 minuets being interviewed and get given a visa.
When I turned up in the US they hardly looked at the fecking thing!

Tis all so stupid

Expat, it's £35.00 for the citizenship test. Not telling anyone apart from DP of course, that I'm taking it as if I fail, will be teased relentlessly for years...

Wasn't today your job interview?

I wound up doing it yesterday, ilove.

Oh, believe me, you won't fail it!

You get to do some practice questions first. Then you have to wait for everyone to finish the practice questions before you can start the exam.

I honestly think the only people who fail don't speak English very well.

Personally I have always felt that if you are paying taxes and legally resident, you should be entitled to any and all benefits regardless of your nationality. That includes voting. I haven't voted in the UK for years because I haven't lived there for years and don't really see why I should have any say. I live in France, pay (exorbitant) tax in France (fortunately I don't need a visa), ds1 is at school here, we are members of local associations and I would dearly like to have my say as to where all our money goes.

Full sympathy for notlost because it seems ludicrous to insist on a work visa for a baby. When we were in the States, only dh had a work visa (P1), I had an associated P4 linked to his, much cheaper - but I couldn't work, fair enough that was the deal. Don't see why on earth children can't benefit from that sort of arrangement.

It's not a work permit visa for a baby! It's a visa for the dependents of work permit holders.

The UK takes the stance that any non-EU/EEA migration is to benefit, or at least not be a detriment, to its nationals and taxpayers.

Such migrants must therefore prove they can support themselves without recourse to public funds for a specific period (it varies by visa).

This seems reasonable to me.

Taxes are an inevitability no matter where you work.

Notlost, you might want to get some proper advice on all this, as I think you are a little misinformed at the moment. As Expat, has pointed out, a baby would not need a work permit, but a work permit dependant visa.
If you have ILR, then your baby is also eligible for ILR. You can apply for a British passport 12 months after being granted ILR. So no, it's not a 10 year wait...

The Home Office won't actually lie to you. Nationality law is very complicated though, and whoever talked to you is almost certainly not a lawyer, and may not have given you all the relevant information that you might find useful. You should seek some independent advice from a lawyer or a charity specialised in the field. Everyone who wants a UK visa has to get fingerprinted these days, however old they are. That includes babies.

Most of these rules are designed to 1. deliberately discourage immigration, which is a vote loser, and 2. to earn enough money to make visa and permit offices pay for themselves.

Leonie, I did two first-time minor passports and one renewal and got them all back exactly one week later!

Hello again notlost. Having now read some of this thread, I see that you have a work permit and are not actually indefinitely settled here (at least not in immigration terms). In that case, the others are correct, your baby needs to be granted immigration status as your dependant. It is not a work permit for her, as expat has said.

It does seem like you are quite confused. So, yes, I do think YAB a little U to slate the system when you've actually misunderstood it.

I work in immigration (not for the home office, we are independent consultancy firm) so feel free to ask if more Qs.

Hi starkadder, I wasn't going to bump the thread, but you're right, I am very confused and have been unable to get through to anyone who actually works for the Home Office for two days now.

My husband and I have completed a five year work permit and are now in the waiting period between work permits and actually getting dual nationality [yes, we have indef leave to remain], BUT my daughter was born at the tail end of our work permit. So I honestly do suspect that even though her parents have indefinite leave to remain and she was born in the UK, she might be refused a British passport. The Home Office refused to entertain queries about future potential babies when I asked them while I was pregnant (they did the same to me with our marriage and questions about changing between and unmarried partner and a spouse visa - they just fobbed me off and told me to call back when the wedding had actually taken place). I can't get through to the Home Office, so I really just don't know.

The border agent was the one who told me she needed a work permit like mine and my husband's so that's where the misunderstanding about having a work permit comes from. Again, I haven't been able to get through to the Home Office on the telephone, so all I have been able to go on is their website, which seems to be written exclusively for people who wish to bring their (older) children to come live with them, not babies who were born here.

We're sorely tempted to wait a few months until we can complete the citizenship process and do it all together as a family, but that won't be within the two-month window the border agent gave us and she definitely put the fear of God in us re: ruining our daughter's immigration record forever. So I really do want to do it to the letter and make sure everything is perfect.

Although, TBH, I do think it's a bit boo that an under-16-who-can't-work's dependant visa costs the same as an adult's who can, but that's neither here nor there. My dependant visa cost $120 from the LA consulate. My how times have changed?

We had actually planned on waiting until we had dual to have children, but, surprise: BABY!

So there's my novel for the day

My first visa to stay here, FLR(M), was free. It was also only for one year. And you could come in on a tourist visa, get married to a British person and transfer to FLR(M) whilst remaining in the country.

Yep, times have definitely changed.

ID cards are being scrapped BTW

Have just got off the phone with the Home Office who was nice enough to assure me that DD is NOT here illegally whew and that the fee to bring her in line is £465 because the fees are per application regardless of the applicant's age/dependancy (she would be £50 on top of the application fee if DH or I was applying)

It would be really nice if the ID cards are being scrapped. Last I heard they were still being required for dependants and poking around on the British Consulate's US site they say that applicants need to appear in person to have their biometrics collected, but that might be outdated. Oh, fingers crossed that it is , if for nothing else the sheer hassle of it.