The Experiment - advice please

[SerendipitousHarlot]

Ok, sorry but bear with me if this is a bit long and rambling.

Dh has been unemployed for almost 2 years now. He took voluntary redunancy 2 years ago, wanting to go into another field entirely - but he tried it and hated it.

Then over the last 2 years he has had 2 knee operations and depression, and is currently on incapacity benefit. I work full time and he is SAHD.

Over the last 6 months, he isn't pulling his weight in the house, imo. Every day I get home and there's stuff that needs doing - there's always a excuse reason - he hasn't felt well, he was too busy, blah blah.

I've said this morning that I want to have A Talk when I get home after the dc are in bed - he has obviousy gone straight on the defensive, said that I'm accusing him of being lazy, and that if it wasn't for him, the house would be a 'shithole'

I don't agree. When I get home, there's no dinner, because he wasn't hungry, so I end up having to cook something for myself. I know from speaking to dd that he leaves some housework for her to do when she gets home from school! I always have to put a wash on, put clothes away, and usually hoover.

My idea, that I want to suggest, is that next week, I don't do any housework for 5 days, so that I can make him understand what needs doing. Is this a good idea? Has anyone done anything like it, and did it work?

AIBU to expect this?

Sorry to sound like a husband from 1900

What I have started doing now, and which COULD work for you is...when DH comes home he takes DD out into the garden for 30 minutes play and I do one final cleaning and tidying while she is not there to undo my work. Then she has her bath and we get to spend the evening in a nice clean house...could you do something similar with your 3 year old? It's also nice for my DH to spend time with DD in the evening.

The other thing we do is lists..I do have to write a list of chores down for him or he does nothing, makes me feel like I have 2 kids but it works.

oh dear, I do several loads of washing a day but also text DH to get shopping in on way home

In my defence I am not really a SAHM but work part-time.

Ach I wouldn't mind if I drove, but I bloody walk!

so does DH..I am a lazy slattern

Hahahahaha

I often ask dh to get stuff on the way home too...didn't know that was wrong. From my point of view, getting dd dressed (a challenge in itself), forcing her into the car/buggy, driving/walking to market, buying bread and milk, but then also having to deal with dd whining for sweets/lollipop/insert inappropriate treat and then walking/driving back is much much harder than dh popping into the shops as he'll be in and out in ten minutes tops.

SH, you have my sympathy as it's exhausting having to be the responsible one...I'm just wondering if your husband needs your support and encouragement more than you realise. He definitely doesn't need you to label him lazy and slatternly - unproductive IMO. So YANBU in feeling frustrated but YABVU with the whole idea of The Experiment as the purpose seems to be to show up your dh.
Sorry, but still on your husband's side on this one.

Yeah, I have decided against The Experiment and decided to play it in a more constructive way. I didn't want to show him up, I just wanted him to realise how much I do against how much I think I should be doing iyswim.

There isn't anything wrong with asking your oh to get something on the way home tbh - just that I get resentful when he asks me to pick stuff up after a long day at work, then I get home for him to tell me which games he's played/dvds he's watched.

And I also understand the support and encouragement thing - but then I also get to the point of thinking, who supports and encourages me? When do I get a day off? Does that make sense?

Yes it makes sense.

hi there. seems like there is unreasonableness on both sides - but your last post makes me feel that your DH is being more U than you are! watching DVDs, playing games and having sleeps during the day is not really on if you come home to no dinner and a heap of chores.

being SAH M or D is tiring and hard work, and yes there's no reason he can't sit down for a cup of tea and have a lunch break, but perhaps he has to start viewing it like a proper job? hours a bit longer than 9-5 I imagine but then he has time off when the little one is at nursery or napping - so perhaps you need to help him to view his available hours as time when he could be productive for the both of you, then you can sit down together in the evning to watch a DVD?

think you are right to rethink the experiment as it will only show him up and make him feel more emasculated but he does need to pull his weight more.

and is there a way for him to get off IB? or his health a real bar to getting back to work?

Hope I didn't come out too harsh SH, I really do sympathise with how you're feeling. Everyone reaches the end of their road, whatever situation they're in. I think you'd do good with taking a step back and letting go of your negative feelings, then tackling the situation with your dh in a calm manner, and come to a mutual solution. Easier said than done, I know...but you'll be doing yourself no favours if you come out all guns blazing listing out everything you do and he doesn't iyswim?

And there's the million dollar question EyePeam....

There have been endless "health reasons" not to go back to work over the last year. He says that he needs to get back to work for his own sanity - which I completely understand - but doesn't make any effort to do so.

I don't know if that's part of the depression, the fact that he may have lost some confidence while being at home, which I know from personal experience can be an issue - or whether it's an excuse.

I'm dreading tonight's conversation if I'm honest. Dh has a huge capacity for self pity sometimes. It will turn into a big Pity Me conversation, and I'll end up feeling like a bitch.

Ho hum.

YANBU at all, if he does not work outside the home he should bloody well pull his weight inside it.

I do not work outside the home and I would not even consider the other half having to do anything other then cook a meal every now and then.

Not at all LastTrain! All opinions appreciated

I hate coming across as a 'nag' - I often try to put myself in his shoes - I would just appreciate it if he would offer me the same consideration sometimes.

not nice, don't envy you that one. can you approach from the perspective of saying that you want to support him get back to work, so what can you do between you to help him enjoy being at home a bit more while looking into training opportunities etc so that he can make some progress towards getting back to a job that he enjoys.

it does sound like he's depressed (obv I know he suffers from depression and is on ADs, but actively depressed IYKWIM) given that most people who are busy and active and involved don't tend to sit round watching tv and playing games during the day.

also, can you talk about how it's not fair for your dd to be given housework to do when she comes home from school? I'm all in favour of children pulling hteir weight, making own beds etc - but he shouldn't be leaving stuff for her to do when she's been working hard at school all day and will have homework too. Perhaps show him how his behaviour is having a negative effect on your overall family life ... easier said than done I know.

Good luck!

Hi Harlot,

"He is under treatment for depression FairLady - he has just upped the dose of citalopram - I am sympathetic to this, I promise - it's just difficult feeling like I have to be the capable one all the time." - I sooooo sympathise with your post - I have been / am in exactly the same boat as you. Sometimes you want to scream "what about MEEEEEEEE????!!!!" coz it seems so unfair and one-sided. You're left doing all the thinking as well as all the practical stuff, and it is exhausting.

Something I've learned (apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs): honestly, there is absolutely no point in having the conversation with him if he is currently actively (pardon the pun) depressed. It will make him feel worse, and it will create tension. Again, this is not fair on you at all, but unfortunately that's the way it is with depression. It can seem like the most selfish illness in the world. Once the citalopram kicks in, that's the time to start negotiations with him.

If the citalopram doesn't work, get him to the doctor's (go with him) and ask for alternatives - there are many.

So sorry this is happening to your DH, to you and your family. It's a real b*gger of an illness. I can chat more if you want to send me a private message - not sure how you do this but I think I've seen that this is possible on MN ...

hmm...has your dh always had a problem wiht depression, or is it the change in his role that led to it or another pin-pointable cause...if there is a cause that cna be addressed...than I think, that is the way to go...I know medication can help...but I still think the cause of depression must also be addressed, iykwim...

I do sympathise with you, though...

Sometimes people get so low that the original cause of the depression becomes secondary to the need to treat the sypmtoms IYSWIM. So it's a case of taking anti-depressants to stabilise yourself a bit, and then the cause can be addressed. In the words of a GP that I once spoke to, "if you have counselling (etc) whilst you're at rock-bottom, you're just kicking yourself while you're down." I think is very sound advice.

not saying he shouldn't be taking anti-d's...but surely they are not the solution to the problem? They cold help to make that difference, to give Op's husband the motivation to change things...but, he still needs a plan...iykwim

You ladies are so right with everything you're saying.

I have no clue how to deal with the depression. I have been on anti-d's in the past, postnatally, and again for a short period last year, purely because I got so exhausted with having to deal with everything alone. Or so it felt. But I never stayed on them longer that 3 months, because I either felt no different, or started to feel too detached from everything. So it is hard for me to relate to the illness - I sort of think 'well, I just get on with things, why can't you?' .

I have tried to talk to him tonight. But he's not responding in the way I'd like, so I'm going to leave it. Again.

And that is really why I'm so frustrated - I don't get heard, ever. I get the impression sometimes that all-about-him has become the default setting.

That's the nature of depression, Harlot - it is soooo frustrating.

Try to give the meds a couple of weeks to kick in, and then try again. If you still get nowhere, that is the time to go to the doc's with him (drag him there if necessary, or request a home visit - say that your dh is too ill to leave the house if you have to) - and explain to the doc exactly what DH is like. People with depression are often totally unaware of how they appear to others - again, it's an unwittingly selfish illness but oooooh it is awful for the people who get swept along in its wake.

A popular saying amongst counsellors & therapists is "there's comfort in the familiar" - i.e. sometimes it's easier to let the depression take you over, and sort of let yourself feel down, because dealing with whatever's causing it is too painful or difficult, and because it is easy to wallow in the bad feelings. Sounds like this is happening with your DH, possibly? If the GP could say the same to your DH, do you think he would take any notice and get some help, and try to help himself?

I don't honestly know MummyDragon. To the outside world, he's 'normal'. When he goes for a pint with his mate, or fishing, he's like the old dh. But not with me.

I was going to say how can he turn it on and off like that - but then, remembering back to when I was depressed, I was the same. At work I was laughing and joking as usual, and at home I was miserable.

It's difficult. Half of me wants to hold his hand and support him (which I do regularly, btw) and the other half wants to shout in his face to CHEER THE FUCK UP OR I'M OFF

Thanks for all your advice, it's really helpful.

hmm...tbh, by what you describe in your last post, it could truely be that the major issue is that he is a SAHD and maybe he finds it really difficult to deal with the fact that you are the breadwinner....he might not feel that being a sahd is a valuable role, certainly even more possible if it wasn't entirely by choice...

maybe give the meds a few weeks, as mummydragon is saying, and than if you still can't talk...how about writing a letter...not confrontational, but honest, and maybe re-assuring...

it must be so very difficult for you right now....

You have very valid points FairLady.

I met dh coming from a really crap relationship with dds father. He was a dick, and I saw dh as my saviour almost - after spending many years being the sole responsible one, I was with a man who looked after me for a change.

Somewhere along the way, it's changed into that relationship again. Me doing all the 'looking after' of everyone, and feeling like nobody cares enough about me to do the same.

It is difficult, if I'm honest.

I think the letter thing is a really good idea. Maybe I'll put it in his fishing bag or something so that he can read it and take it in with me not there.

sounds like a good plan!