To think some train passengers are complete s**ts?

[DollyDiamond]

I travel with my one year old every Mon-Wed on the train from Richmond to Waterloo (pre-7am to avoid the big crush), but am finding it increasingly unpleasant. Twice this week I have been brought to tears (and I am definitely not the weepy type) by callous passengers who feel we are in their way (despite all attempts to ensure we are not). Part of the problem appears to be that some passengers do not see the spaces with flip up seats as priority for buggies and as a result, either refuse to let me park there or demand that I move the buggy to let them sit down. If I did so, I would block the exits or corridors and thus obstruct all other passengers. I never take up 2 spaces and am always polite in requesting people give up their seat (or even just move up one seat to park nearest the door, where it is widest), but can't believe they don't appreciate that these seats are meant to be used by buggies/wheelchairs etc and should you sit there, you may need to give them up (preferably without me having to ask). The tube has signs above some seats saying they may need to be surrendered to someone who needs them more (eg parent and child/elderly) and I have asked the train company to consider installing these and in the meantime, ask the train announcers to politely remind passengers to give these seats up graciously - but we'll see...?

I just find it so depressing that people are so rude and such bullies. The man today made such a verbal demonstration of how much of an inconvenience we were, that dd was terrified and started to cry -his response - to stand way too close to me in presumably some attempt to intimidate me. I was there first - who did he think he was?? When I talk to DH, he's always outraged that no-one jumps to my defence, but I guess that's London?

Sorry for rambling on, but I'm so fed up I want to go home and not come back (despite havoing worked 15 years to get this job). What would you do?

Ugh! I'm sorry!
My DH travels up to London (for work) 1-2 days a week and he almost always comes back with tales about how rude and ungracious some of the other passengers are.
I remember being on a train when I was heavily pg and I had to ASK someone to allow me to sit down on an empty seat (person was sitting on the aisle seat so the window seat was free) - then they tutted loudly at me! OMG!!!

The carriages with fold up seats clearly indicate on the outside that they are for wheelchairs and buggies. next time say 'i'm sorry but this area is specifically designed for those with wheelchairs and buggies - please see the signs on the outside of the carriage. I have paid for this journey just as you have and have a right to be here and to travel without harrassment from you. Please leave me alone or i will be forced to report you'.

And shame on those who don't stand up for you.

Hugs

God, I was thinking exactly the same thing today. I was waiting in the queue as the bus doors opened and some old bint shoved past me and climbed over DD's pram to get in first.

Usually I am quite laid back and think oh well, you're old and you'll die soon, but DD had been stroppy all day and I was at the end of my tether so I shouted OH PLEASE, DO FEEL FREE TO PUSH RIGHT IN. And then accidentally-on-purpose lightly rammed the back of her ankles with the pram (should be in the Xplory reviews - it's a great urban pram because you can use it as a battering ram on public transport).

I have to recommend a rose and rebellion carrier - I am using it with two stone ds.

www.roseandrebellion.com

am not on commission, unfortunately

good luck!

So funny ninedragons.

I remember standing at a bus stop in the pouring rain and wind with my 5 yo ds and my 1 yo dd in the buggy. When the bus arrived ALL of the 5 adults in the queue charged to the front and pushed on in front of us. I said really loudly to ds "It's OK darling, we will just wait, all of these big, healthy adults who can walk for themselves are cold and wet and MUST get on the bus BEFORE us to get out of the inclement weather!". Lots of red faces and no-one looking at us as we staggered onto the bus.

That is London Transport for you.

Ooh thanks for that Rose and Rebellion recommendation - I'm very, very tempted to get one of those!

OP - people in rush hour seem to think it's their divine right to travel without having to encounter anyone under the age of 18. They're always vile.

I think you've had some good suggestions here so I hope your journey improves.

ninedragons/sunfleur - it's not just the buses but the number of people who think if there is an open doorway, a woman with a pushchair is happy to stand there for about 10 minutes while an endless stream of people push through in the other direction. I am quite tempted sometimes to just ram my way forward - I might try that in future

Heh ninedragons I must admit I've used my Xplory in the exact same way. This time, an inconsiderate idiot "gentleman" who refused to move his feet out of the way whilst I tried to manoeuvre my pram to the back. I felt immensely satisfied ramming his ankles then crushing his feet as I went past

I want an attachment I've seen in a film - could be a Charlton Heston or similar. These spinning blades pop out of the chariot wheels and mow down one's competitor's chariots.

I'm going to write to Stokke today and suggest it.

ahem

Not everyone travelling in the morning is vile.
My DH would make room for you and give you a seat - as would I on the rare occasions I go up now.
They are just crammed in every morning and every evening of their lives. It ain't fun and people start to get a bit 'every man for himself'.
But they are not all like that. Don't start assuming everyone is horrid. It will make you glum .

( and actually the last time I travelled up to Waterloo and there was a child on board I was waving at her and the mum glared at me and swooshed the child to face away from me . She managed to do it without dislodging the mobile she was shouting into for the whole journey)

I had an incident on the tube where a passenger refused to move from the flip up seat so I could park the buggy.

I said that if he didn't shift I would pull the emergency cord and he would be fined £200 as he was breaking the law....obviously I never would have pulled the cord and i'm sure he'd never be fined but he soon moved sharpish.

I think u should make friends with the poster who gets ur train, she can help u and u might become great
friends!

Bigchris is right - it could even snowball and you could end up with a mumsnet carriage!

I hate to say it - but many tube lines and buses only permit folded buggies during rush hour.

So be careful of shouting about your rights and calling in authority. You may find you are in the wrong.

(I say this as a Londoner with a toddler, a baby and a buggy!)

Good one Nancy66!

No of course not pagwatch - but the overwhelming majority of people make you feel like it's a bit of a bloody imposition for you to transport children when they are travelling to and from work. I commute in and around London every working day by tube or train and on the rare times I've taken a buggy on during rush hour, I've encountered nothing but aggro I'm afraid to say.

I know I'm exaggerating but I'm trying to make the OP realise that she's not being picked on - her experience is fairly common I think sadly

theyoungvisiter - are you sure about that? I've never heard that you have to fold buggies on tubes and I've lived in London for about 25 years!

Spicemonster - yup, there are signs up on the Victoria line about it at some stations. Or at least there were a year ago when I last looked (I don't go on the tube with my double buggy at the moment).

I have to say - no-one's ever enforced it on the tube when I've been travelling (unlike buses when I have occasionally been told to fold or get off).

Kingrolo - not controversial with me. I have noticed it too and exactly as you say. Annoys the pants of me and on one occassion I did spectacularly lose it with someone.

"And this might be controversial but ime it's almost always middle aged or elderly women who do things like this, rarely men or young people who often get all the bad press."

I'm sorry but those flip up seats are designed for wheelchairs - not buggies
I know you use SW trains, but Southern trains have got signs clearly stating they are priority seats for wheelchairs and if a wheelchair user needs them, they should be vacated
There is no mention of buggies and I can completely see why someone who pays £2000 a year for a season ticket would take umbridge to you asking them to get out of their seat to save you the hassle of folding up your buggy
I know it is a pain to travel on public transport with a buggy, and some people are less than generous when it comes to helping with stairs etc, but in this instance, I think YABU

So it's entirely down to the individual train operator (or even tube line) it seems. On the Jubilee line there is a big sign saying 'this area is for priority use by wheelchairs and pushchairs'. And a similar sign above the flip up seats on the District Line. So I don't think it's unreasonable for the OP to assume that applies across the board - it's a pretty absurd situation that there are some lines/train operators who put an area aside for pushchairs and others who insist you fold them.

How very British

We went to the Taste thing in London this weekend, and actually found random blokes on the tube were incredibly kind and helpful in getting the buggy, bags & baby up masses of spiral stairs. I also had a guy surrender his Tube seat unasked. (Commuters do tend to be ruder than weekenders, admittedly.) What absolutely appalled me was how few tubes were marked as wheelchair accessible - and when we tried to gun for those, Shepherd's Bush lift wasn't completed despite being marked as such, and the lifts at Wood Lane round the corner were out of action. Most tubes aren't listed as accessible at all.

At least you CAN carry a baby and a buggy down endless steps - but how can someone in a wheelchair move across London? I was horrified. 2009, one of the richest countries in the world, and the major transport system in our capital city is near unusable by people with mobility problems.

I agree, there's little to clarify who gets priority on the train in those "seats", you just hope that common sense (insight?) prevails and someone lets you park there to save evreyone climbing over the buggy to get on/off. Most people are lovely and very helpful, I think the thing that shocked me most was the fact that he got on (after me), told me to move "that" (pointing at my daughter) and when the girl next to me offered him her seat instead (which was kind as he had no obvious reason to need the seat), he said no that it was me inconveniencing him?? What logic is there to bahaviour like that. He then un-necessarily stood so close to me (in my opinion) to make me uncomfortable. I just think he was a nasty piece of work.

It is annoying to not get a seat (I commute other days with dd), but I pay for the journey, not a seat. Most people wouldn't dream of taking a child on the train at that time, but I have no choice. I need to work and childcare outside my workplace is twice as expensive and not as good. We can't get up any earlier (I already arrive an hour before I'm needed to avoid the busiest times) - sweeping generalisation, but the passengers who tut and roll their eyes always look like the ones who complain about sponging mums bleeding the state dry!!

Dollydiamond, what a horrible man! He clearly has ishoos.

(And it's always the eyerollers. I wonder how they can whine about abortion rights and single mothers bleeding the state dry. Never really understand how they can't grasp the contradiction inherent in that one. You can have either/or, not both!)

Qually - true.

We were amazed when we visited Sweden and found that there were little steel runnel things running up and down steps in the tube stations - presumably for buggies and wheelchairs.

DD - I am grrr! for you!

Oh Dolly - he sounds like an absolute pig! pagwatch is right, there are very few people that are that mean and obnoxious so I think you were just unlucky. Having said that I do think it's an entirely different experience travelling with children in rush hour - I regularly take my DS on the tube and train at weekends and I can count the times I've had to haul him up and down steps on my own on one hand - people are (almost) unfailingly kind. Something weird seems to happen to them on weekday mornings and evenings though ...