To say I don't like community groups to delibrately segregate people?

[helpmegetthisrightplease]

I've name changed as I'm so upset with myself and ashamed. I feel as if I've messed up completely.

I sit on a committee that allocates grants. I've met with hundreds of organisations in the last 5 years and there have been no problems.

Yesterday we met with a group who offer clubs to a particular ethnic group. The lady said that the group were trying to integrate children into British society. She said these children only went to schools aimed at their community, their parents wouldn't allow them to go to normal activities for cultural reasons and they weren't allowed to mix with other children not of their community. Her group offers weekend and after school activities but ONLY to children from this particular community.

I questioned how this would help children integrate and she became defensive. I then said "I'll be honest with you, I don't really like groups that cater to only one sector of society whether they be for example special needs, afro carribean, white or Asian". She became even more defensive and perhaps sensibly my colleague took over the questioning.

Afterwards I got ripped into by my colleagues. The woman has now written to my senior manager accusing me of acting like a member of the BNP, being racist, delibrately degrading and humiliating her and a host of other things.

I wrote and apologised last night as did feel I'd expressed myself badly and there had been misunderstandings on both sides. I offered to visit the scheme to learn more about it in my own time but she's emiled back saying I'd only upset the children and again accusing me of being a closet member of the bnp.

Feeling so angry with myself but also with hr. I've made it clear I'll stand aside from any further disucssion relating to her bid and ask colleagues to disregard my qeustions and comments yesterday in their considerations.

I've never done this before. I don't know what came over me, I'm crying buckets even now. It was just not me.

Probably worst place to post this, come and have a poke at me as well

Well I've just had another email informing me that I "would have been one of the people throwing bricks through windows on Krystal nacht and then shoving the Jews onto trains to the East"

I am not going ot communicate with her any further.

Sobbing my heart out - I made an ill judged comment, apologised and this person is out to destroy me.

helpmegetthisrightplease

Was this one out of the blue or in response to another one sent by you?

Keep all these emails. That is just ridiculous!

It was in response to an email from me in which I clarified that I would take no further part in assessing the bid as there was a breakdown of trust between us. I also pointed her in the direction of a couple of other funding organisations who may be able to help her whether or not her bid to us was successful.

I said that I was prepared to accept her other critisims but asked her to apologise for compairing me to a member of the BNP as I found that very hurtul. I pointed out I have a wide variety of friends of different races, Jews and mixed race people in my family and my DD goes to a mixed race school deliberately chosen by me.

I will not communicate with her any further, she is clearly incapable of any kind of common courtesy.

Too right. You have acted in a professional manner, and frankly she sounds a bit unhinged.

Got to go and pick up DCs

Good grief

Keep the emails and copy them all to your manager and HR.

That's libel I think or slander or whatever it is when written down.

To say you are a murderous nazi and that you would upset the children ie implying you would march in and start hurling abuse is just... It's so unbelievable I can't think of a word for it.

I am so sorry. If what you said was genuinely as per your op (no reason to believe it wasn't) then she is actually behaving like she has about 6 screws loose.

I can't see that this woman is going to do much in the way of promoting integration into society

I keep wanting to try to think what group this woman is representing as I live in an area with segregated religious communities... I just can't imagine anyone I know behaving like this.

Lovely - its completely new to me too. I've dealt with groups working with all sorts of communities. The big difference is that this is the first group that's ever come to me and said they would EXCLUDE other communities from taking part. eg I know a lovely dance group aimed at Asian girls - 3 of their members of white and 2 black an they are all perfectly happy.

as a grant officer you are there to provide due diligence to ensure monies allocated are spent in line with your criteria

did this application do that?

As lulu says there are often groups which rightly cater for only certain sectors

by the way, i think the person making the application has over reacted hugely and her emails should be reported to your senior management (very harrassing in tone)

I don't think you were racist either ...

Was your original meeting with her minuted and have your colleagues who were there agreed the minutes - does she have to agree them?

The things she has written to you are unbelievably appalling.

I ran a baby and toddler group for the NCT once for immigrant parents. The idea being that in an ordinary group with mainly British mums it can be difficult to discuss things like cultural differences without coming across as whingey and "different". I know myself when I am with my British friends I tend not to draw attention to the fact that I have a totally different childhood and to some extent different expectations. I can't talk to them about things like bilingualism or juggling expectations from grandmothers of different cultures.

Of course, I didn't claim that this group was about integration; it wasn't. But it was a safe house, where people could ask for support without feeling it drew attention to us being different. Integration was what we did elsewhere. It worked very well.

But then I wouldn't have sent hysterical emails accusing people of BNP adherence if they didn't agree with me. So I think there is a difference.

Definite bullying tactics, this. Dd's former headteacher (a man who keeps cropping up in my posts) once accused me of racism because I pointed out that the minutes from a meeting were so badly written that they did not make sense. Turned out the woman who wrote them (and failed to sign them) was black. But not, I think, an immigrant. Unlike me.

But it's just one of those accusations that you can't get beyond. Give me money or I'll brand you a racist. As others have said, complain and keep copies of meeting minutes.

Message withdrawn

In some cases attempts at integration act to exclude those very people it is meant to be helping.

Taking your example of not liking groups that cater only to those with special needs, that sort of thinking completely isolates my (very disabled) son. He needs specialist exclusive provision in order to be able to access the local community. Locally much of the money available to children with SN has gone on inclusion projects. This is hopeless for him. In order for him to access a playscheme for example it needs to have locked windows, locked doors and activities that are suitable for him (with limited queuing/waiting). Providing an inexperienced 1:1 (or even an experienced one) does not suddenly make mainstream playschemes at all accessible to him. Unable to access those safely the alternative is to sit at home all day. The specialist playscheme he accesses (with 6 places a day, all with 1:1, locked windows and doors) does allow him to access the community as he can be taken to the shops/go swimming in the local school pool etc. Yes I'm sure inclusion projects are worthwhile for many with different conditions, but for those with his sort of issues they just exclude him further from the community. And money is being diverted away from these sorts of groups to those which are supposedly inclusive.

I would love to take him to the cinema. This will only be possible if a separate session is run.

The same process was found at school. He initially attended a mainstream school where he was totally isolated. He didn't go to assembly, he didn't go on school trips, he didn't sit with the other children (was often in a separate room), and he was shadowed by an adult at all times. Yet he was supposedly 'included' - and really there wasn't a lot the school could have done to change any of the above. Now at special school he attends assembly, he can be given jobs like fetching the register which he just couldn't be given at mainstream school as it wouldn't have been safe (no locked doors to keep the children in), and he goes out into the wider community at least once a week. Usually more often.

Now this is slightly different from the issue you were faced with. But it may be that by providing a safe space from which families could access the community further integration could be obtained. So called inclusion projects can result in the most vulnerable being excluded.

The woman did of course completely over react and reacted inappropriately. Document everything etc etc. I am just taking the opportunity to point out the problems with inclusion as a concept to someone who has some control over funding!

Message withdrawn

He's severely autistic with severe learning disabilities. I think most of what I've said could be extended to the SLD population really. The children at his school do struggle to access out of school activities - and pretty much as a whole cannot attend mainstream events.

He finally gets some respite although until (literally) the last few weeks the vast majority of this was provided via direct payments (so it isn't respite as he needs 2 adults out and about really but only one is funded, so the second is me).

He can access things like the beach (but not as part of an NT group as he won't stay in one place), walking, visiting shops etc. But he can't really access fun days or the cinema or swimming (where does he get changed? he's too old for family swimming, no way can he get changed alone) unless it's a specialist event. He loves riding, but there's no way I could take him to a regular riding stable- he goes to SN events and a friend's house.

Locally funding was diverted from specialist holiday schemes to an inclusion scheme. All that meant was that the children who had attended the specialist schemes had nowhere to go.

I'm sure your situation was different. I just don't like to miss the opportunity to talk about one of my soapbox topics to a funder This issue has been discussed on SN fairly recently.

What a horrible situation for you to be in.

Apologising is fine, apologising that she was upset by your comments but NOT for asking a perfectly reasonable question.

She may have taken your second comment badly, I think I may have felt it a little ill informed. Seperate groups can be vital in some circumstances.

BUT this woman has behaved very badly and I would be tempted to make a complaint about her. HOW DARE she send you that email accusing you of being a Nazi. You could be Jewish for all she knows.

The BNP remarks were well out of order and I would have been very upset by that.

I bloody hate these cries of racisim for no good reason. Its very hard for most victims of discrimination to get heard. Its easy to dismiss them as 'playing the race card' and this sort of woman only makes that worse.

SHE has the problem by the sound of it.