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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want to expunge the use of the word feminine from the English language?

45 replies

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 11:10

OED: feminine- adjective
1 having qualities traditionally associated with women, especially delicacy and prettiness.
2 female.
3 Grammar referring to a gender of nouns and adjectives, conventionally regarded as female

Female is enough surely. That describes the simply biological facts of being of one gender rather than the other. The flick of the switch in the uterus that determines whether the foetus will be a girl rather than a boy. That is all we need to know about a person in terms of their gender.

What is the word 'feminine' for? Do we really need to describe a person in terms of how they interpret their gender? 'Feminine' is used as a way to describe, but more significantly prescribe behaviour.

"Don't climb that tree, that isn't feminine."
"Isn't that a pretty dress, it's so feminine?"

Give a child a gender and then let them get on with it. Don't load them down with a word that carries with it so much baggage and so many rules.

We don't have feminine and masculine nouns so we don't need it for that purpose.

And it would also do away with the hideous phrase 'feminine hygiene products which would be a worthy aim in itself I am sure you will agree! Oh and 'feminine mystique' ..

Discuss.

Please (cos I is a female and therefore non-confrontational )

PS. Masculine could go too.

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MIFLAW · 11/06/2009 12:29

MIFLAW now reveals he is a he and an ex-French lecturer to boot ...

I'll get my coat ...

But apart from the foreign grammar, I do pretty much agree we could live without it.

In fact, the foreign grammar connotation makes the more "loaded" side of things seem even less reasonable. If (in French, for example) a spoon, a person, a night-watchman, liberty and a dog's bowl (but not a knife, a human being, a soldier, communism and a cereal bowl) can be feminine, wouldn't you feel a bit, well, silly using it to describe some supposedly "innate" quality?

I suppose some lesbians would be up in arms, though - or is the fem/butch distinction just sooo 20th century? (Honest question, I don't follow these things as closely as I should.)

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 12:31

Well that is the other side of the same coin mitchy.

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OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 12:32

Apologies on both counts miflaw.

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MIFLAW · 11/06/2009 12:36

Ne vous inquietez pas, OrmIrian, je ne m'en formalise pas.

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 12:41

Ermmm ...good ?

I understood the first bit but what does the second bit mean please?

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MIFLAW · 11/06/2009 12:58

Something like, "I won't make a big deal of it," "I won't get all formal about it," "I won't stand on ceremony" - it's a bugger to translate, to be honest.

That'll teach me to show off. (Cela m'apprendra de faire mon interessant ...)

MIFLAW · 11/06/2009 12:59

DOES anyone have a view on the lesbian need for the word?

I'm curious now.

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 13:00

Ah thankyou.

Now stop it! It'll all end in tears

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madwomanintheattic · 11/06/2009 13:15

can i introduce 'womanly' into this debate pretty please? i think it has more 'physical' connotations and as such am wondering is it more closely allied to sex than gender? is it as reprehensible to say 'she's very womanly' for example?

fascinated by the lesbian q, but having spent time of late discussing sex-change (not mine) i'd still say it was more pertinent from that pov... in my limited experience those wishing to transition rather than occupy a less binary space would def have issues without being able to use gendered terminology...

madwomanintheattic · 11/06/2009 13:16

(and yes, i know it means 'she's got big tits/ hips' but that refers to the physical rather than some fluffy social norm?)

Nahui · 11/06/2009 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 13:33

Yes I suppose you would nahui. Not a big problem afaic.

madwoman - I suppose womanly is better. More meaty (so to speak) and less fluffy

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StayFrosty · 11/06/2009 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

madwomanintheattic · 11/06/2009 14:03

we could change the fawcett society t-shirts lol - not 'this is what a feminist looks like', but 'this is what feminine looks like'...
i'd want to stick with the black, though. so slimming

MrsFlittersnoop · 11/06/2009 14:09

There was a very funny debate on these boards about this issue recently here.

Worth checking out if you missed it first time round .

I'll stick with "womanly".!

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 14:13

Ah yes I remember that. I think I posted but am a bit hazy....

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OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 14:14

"then there's no way they're 'not feminine' - because they are mine and I am a woman."

yes but in which case what is the point of the word. Female will do just as well. I don't think you can reclaim it TBH.

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MadamAnt · 11/06/2009 14:15

"Expunge" on the other hand should be used much more often.

OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 15:00

Yes it should madamant! It is a fine word.

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OrmIrian · 11/06/2009 19:56

DS#1 is currently bending my ear about his mate who is basically jealous of DS's relationship with other mate who has just come back from a holiday in the States.. They just had an argument during Halo live DS is very ungruntled. Now there was me thinking it was DD who was going to have all the friendship fallouts and making ups.

She is tough as old boots.

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