to not really understand why you can't take photos of your children at a swimming centre???

[tryingtobemarypoppins]

and its not all centres is it?

The thing in Japan - if it was kids changing thats different, I think most of us would be a bit if we saw people taking snaps in the changing rooms.

So what's next? Councils run beaches, you know, and there you get kids running around in their undies or buck naked, are they going to have the lifeguards confiscating cameras when we take holiday snaps?

The logical extension of SassyBeast's post is that there should be no photos taken of children at all, as any (whether clothed or not) could be used for superimposition.

Why would a paedophile bother - surely they could do the same by getting a child's swimwear catalogue and save all the effort! Agree 100% with AMumInScotland.

Grimma - the problem with swimming pools is that by their nature, kids are more vulnerable there. Physical contact is easier to achieve - it's relatively 'easy' for a child to be touched innapropriately by a stranger in a swimming pool and I honestly think that's why councils etc try to reduce the 'attractiveness' of pools as a hunting ground by banning photographs, video cameras etc.

Me too.
And at the end of the day. The narsty paedo has a photo, not my child.
The world, has, officially, gone mad.

I've often wondered, if the police found a picture of my child on a paedo's PC would I really want to know (provided there was no possibility that there had been any contact with my child). Would telling us make our family victim of a crime that up until then we had known nothing about? It's a bit like those dodgy men on the tube who look at female passengers and fiddle with themselves - I assume that the feeling of being abused only starts when you find out that you have been the object of unwanted attentions. If the police identified and dealt with such a man from CCTV footage, would you want to be contacted and told what had happened to you without your knowledge, or would telling you serve no purpose? Hmmmmm not sure really.....

I think that for some paedophiles, they get a thrill from the risky behaviour, rather than the actual content of the pictures - ie children being fully clothed IYSWIM.

I know of someone who was caught taking photos of children on his phone at the local swimming pool. The photos themselves were reasonably innocuous, but when he was arrested and his house searched, hundreds of thousands of indecent images were found.

I think the fact that an individual is taking action in RL (no matter how low on the scale it is), as opposed to passive watching of images on a screen, could represent a step towards escalating their behaviour.

It's like saying where is the harm from someone flashing, which objectively viewed is not really that serious, however studies have been done which show that rapists very rarely commit rape on a first offence, but that often there has been a gradual build up of severity of offences.

"If you saw a stranger at the pool taking pictures that had your children in shot, wouldn't you worry? Even if they said they were taking pictures of their kids?"

i've never understood this mind set. even if lets say a paedophile is taking photos of your child in a swimming pool when you are present,what's going to happen? just don't hire them to babysit.

Yes the world is mad and getting madder by the day.

The next step might be to close all swimming pools and parks - to be on the safe side.

We could make it illegal for kids to go outside without being covered all over including their faces.

Agree with muminscotland. Taking photos of someone doesn't really steal their soul you know.

I think it is getting madder by the day onagar!
I have lovely pictures of my DCs taken at swimming pools at different ages.
I agree with mayorquimby-why would it matter if someone had a photo of my DC in a public place?
Seeing as we have just had a thread a few days ago where people won't allow their DCs to be photographed at school I am not surprised!
I don't see the point, because on the beach anyone can be photographing your DC in a swimming costume or less.

This is such a hideous subject.

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with the attitude of 'what harm can it do?'

The harm is that it provides an opportunity for paedophiles to escalate their behaviour and to act out in real life. This may only be an interim step to more serious behaviour.

For the poster who said they would be worried if they didn't have kids with them - sadly, I know of several paedophiles who to the outside world looked every part respectable caring family men.

Taking it to the extreme - if council pools didn't have this policy, and some man was sitting beside you in the viewing gallery, taking photos of your DC, would you not be upset?

Imagine if you challenged the man, and he disclosed he was a convicted paedophile, but said that there was no harm in what he was doing - can anyone really say they would be happy with this?

I never forget taking photos of ds1 in the bath when he was 2 yrs old, long before i had a digital camera. I took the film to boots to have it developed and when I went back I was asked to step into an office where 5 minutes later 4 burly police officers turned up...the reason? I had taken "indecent" photos..errr no actually I took photos of MY own son in the bath playing with his birthday present. I had to prove he was my son and also had to endure long and legnthy interviews as to why I had taken these photos. In the end I got an apology and my photos back.

I'm totally with AMuminScotland and others who have agreed with her.

Unless a child is actively involved then it does no harm and he/she is none the wiser.

What do people think it acheives in terms of child protection if photographs cannot be taken?

The paedophile is the one with the problem and it is pretty flippin obvious that treatment of such an affliction does not consist of banning all opportunities for the paedophile to get his kicks. Treatment success is pretty limited but banning access to kids doesn't exactly address the underlying causes nor does it prevent children from being lusted after or their images being masturbated over. Grim but true, so what is the point?

TheYearofTheCat so you think that your extremely unlikely scenario justifies the harm that is being done to children by considering them to be sexual beings that need to be constantly protected from predatory sexual gazes?

Naked little children are not dirty. Taking pictures of them is not dirty. Nobody is harmed if a non-dirty picture of a child is used for nefarious purposes.

This way of thinking about things means that everyone in the world needs to be controlled and restricted to protected against risks that don't even matter.

I want my child to be protected from being sexually abused. I do not give a shit if people take pictures of her when she's in a public place.

The only way to stop paedophiles taking photos of your child and wanking over them is to never allow them out in public whilst uncovered.

what skidoodle said.

There needs to bwe a degree of common sense and compromise. Open public sessions are too busy for staff to monitor all camera use. Our local swim school (privately run, at local 6th form college) would let parents take photos so long as they filled in the form (name/address/date and swim school either confirmed they knew them or if not eg grandparent they had to show ID)- best compromise solution but unworkeable in a busy leisure centre.

Staff do not need to monitor all use of cameras.

This us where common sense and good sense diverge - when people accept such a ridiculous premise as that leisure centre staff should be granted that kind of power.

I'm with MuminScotland. I'm NOT flippant about paedophilia - I think it is a huge and very horrifying problem - but for the kids caught up in it, not for my daughter getting her photo taken at the swimming pool, or in a school play.

am with Hester and MuminScotland on this one.

there was a time when paedophilia was not so publicised and we could take photos of our children without fear of being branded nonces.

there was a time when children were able to be children and run naked in gardens etc without parents fearing the worst.

Then the justice system failed one too many children and it got out into the public and there was public outcry.

Now we guard our children far too much, and yet at the same time

we stopped buying our daughters CHILDRENS clothes and started buying them mini adult clothes and shoes. Out went knickers and vests in came bras and thongs for 7 yr olds.

out went cross bar shoes in came high heel shoes.
out went play make up which was plastic and in came real make up.

Exactly LadyEvenStar-that is why I agree with onagar that the world is getting madder every day!

Very true ladyevenstar Utterly hideous mini-trollop clothes....

I was recently waiting at Stansted airport for my Mum and dd was plonked on her case looking bored and a group of Spanish (I think) men (all men) were laughing at her expression sat there in front of the red pillar box thingy and asked me if they could take her picture as typical English child in front of iconic post boxy thing. How sad that I said "yes of course" but was thinking "oooh isn't this a bit weird? Should I be doing this?"

Reminds me of that Mners husband (I think, or maybe it was a news story that was discussed here, it was bonkers anyway) who had parked his car next to a park at lunchtime and was eating his sarnies while checking his emails and got rounded on by a group of daily mail readers mothers convinced he was a paedo.....

My dh got chucked out of the swimming baths on holiday for taking fotos of us all!!!

He even offered to show them the pics on the digital camera (i'd already seen them)- but no they escorted him off the premises .

I had to get out of the pool so I could get the chalet key for him from the locker and there were 3 fotos of me and our dc in that camera so it was very OTT.

Ds3 happily reminds his dad about this often usually in company ....'dad remember when they chucked u out of the pool cos they thought you was a weirdo' lmao - its bad though isnt it.

It's ridiculous is what it is!
Your poor dh!

I have been victim of a paedophile as a child and it has made me very sensitive to pictures being taken of my dc by strangers, even if they are just in the background and it's all very innocent.

I was at a soft play last year and my dd was playing next to a girl having her photo taken whilst playing. It was all innocent enough but i couldn't help feeling really anxious and i get this horrible adrenline feeling rise up. I had to go and move my dd to play with something else out of the cameras shot. Even i can see how silly it is but that is the effect being a victim has made on me, it's not really something i feel i can control.