To be absolutely gutted that the first BNP MEP is a teacher

[clemette]

It is so bad that he has been elected, and even worse that he is a teacher. londonone told me that it was wrong for me to openly oppose the BNP in the classroom. Perhaps I should be teaching acorss the border in Yorkshire

Of the "crime" of carrying a knife 12 per cent were white British, 12 per cent black Caribbean, 6 per cent black African and 6 per cent South Asian in 2005.
Young black men are also disproportionately the victims:
"12 per cent of homicide victims by sharp instrument have been black ? around five times over-represented against population estimates. Asians occupy a similar position,
accounting for each year, on average, 7 per cent of victims."

To be honest I am not sure I understand your earlier distinction. When I teach the Nazis I teach the political spectrum (including contemporary British politics) and I teach the Holocaust. When I teach Holocaust denial the studnets ask which people could possibly deny the Holocaust. I tell them.
I suspect there are people on this thread that think I go in to the classroom spouting polemic. I teach history, it is impossible to do so without discussing interpretations and the point of history is to draw modern parallels and discuss how history is often repeated in the present. I am comfortable with my own professionalism and the value of the way I (and almost every history teacher in the country) teach my subject.

I hate to point this out but 12% + 12% + 6%+ 6% doesn't in any way add up to 100% therefore what ethnicity were the other 64% that you haven't accounted for? The stats you have posted certainly don't make any sense.

How were the knives found on the young people?

Through stop and search?

It is well established that young black men are far more likely to be stopped on suss than any other group of people.

I am all for educating young people on knife crime. To continue the myth that black men are dangerous and aggressive can only serve to cause fear amongst white people and resentment amongst black people.

It also has the affect of encouraging aggressive behaviour amongst immature young men who feel the need to live up to the gangsta image.

The BNP spout that only blacks are in gangs and any white boys are copying them.

Gangs and knife crime is prevelant amoungst the poor and disenfranchised.

Perpertrating the steryotype of dangerous black youth can only push non whites further to the edge.

Its a self fulfilling prophesy.

One that decent young men have to cope with every bloody day.

Chegirl we examine WHY the statistics are as they are. We do not say that young black men are aggressive and dangerous (my class is 30% black so, even if I beleived such an load of tripe, I don't imagine they would let it go unchallenged) we examine the social circumstances behind the statistics - including disproportionate levels of poverty.

londonone my source is here page 76.

To answer your earlier question chegirl, the statistics are based on what the young men themselves say.

Well a cursory look at that paper suggests that if you are suggesting that "many" knife crimes are committed by black people specifically you are being disingenuous to say the least.

The actual stats for carrying a knife from that part of the paper are 38% of white pupils, 41% of black pupils and 33% of Asian pupils.

If from that you feel that it is a FACT that many black people commit knife crime, then I am worried about your perception of facts. In factb the stats you yourself presented actually show black and white males to be equally likely to carry knives.

Statistics based on what the young men are saying?

Sorry but those dont sound like reliable figures to me.

Do you carry a knife?

Hell yeah

Do you have lots and lots of sex?

Damn straight

How big is your willy?

Feckin ginormous miss.

You get me?

londonone, working in the gun capital of England, where we have white ribbons on the walls of the school to represent lives lost to knife crime in the city, where many of my students carry knives I will continue to combine anecdotal evidence with statistical data.
In another thread you accused me of being overly critical of the BNP (how dare I say they are the British equivalent of the Nazis??!!), now you are choosing to imply that I am racist. The reports states "On the other hand, young people who are black are more likely to admit to carrying a
flick knife ? illegal and likely to be more dangerous ? than white or Asian young people
(15 per cent compared with 9 per cent and 8 per cent respectively).

I suspect that you have no experience of teaching 16 year olds. You seem to assume that they are passive sponges ready to accept what adults tell them. Quite the contrary - they challenge everything, want to know everthing, and make sure that we never rest on our laurels.

And they can debate the subtleties of an argument without verging on Daily Mail hysteria.

chegirl innit.
But academic data suggests that young people are surprisingly honest when completing these type of surveys. Drug and alcohol use and sexual activity are generally pretty accurately determined from survey data.

You suspect wrong clemette, very wrong. I have not implied that you are racist I have simply pointed out that you keep saying that you deal only in FACTS when self evidently you also deal in anecdotes and opinion etc. That is fine but realise that as soon as you start bringing your own political views into the classroom you open the door for other teachers, who may have views you find unpalatable i.e BNP, to do the same.

Clemmette but surely you see the danger of basing data on such limited and anecdotal evidence?

I dont disregard your findings but what holds true in your classroom/area is not neccessarily representative of the entire UK.

If you are talking to teenagers about these subjects, you are to be commended. Its very important that kids are given the opportunity to explore why they make the choices they do.

I would just be very wary of drawing conclusions for such limited information.

Sorry, I thought I recalled you were a primary teacher.
We historians are only trained to see facts through the prism of interpretation you know...

I trained as a primary teacher and now teach right across the spectrum from nursery to 18 as a specialist teacher for an LEA.

Always pays to check your facts before drawing your conclusions!

Point taken chegirl but the GCSE Crime and Punishment course requires us to look at perceived causes of crime through history, and actual cause (ie poverty snd deprivation). Poverty has caused crime thtoughout the ages - my students are interested to know why many members of ethnic minority groups live in disproportionate poverty.
Anyway, I am going to stop waffling on about my own subject and the way I deliver it. It is as it is - it prepares my students to be questionning, challenging and tolerant. They make me feel a bit proud.

I assume not history (or citizenship) though as your knowledge of the pedagogy is a little limited .

As is your knowledge of the facts

Clemette. I think what you are doing is very important.

I am the mother of three boys, one is already a young man. They are all black. We live in East London.

The subject is very close to my heart.

You should be proud.

Fair enough, with your "specialist" status I will take my degree, masters, PhD and 12 years experience (8 as faculty leader for humanities) and submit. You must know my subject, my exam specifications, my students and my methodology better than me.
Pffft.

Chill out, it was a lighthearted comment in response to yours!