to find the term 'overtired' irritating

[dorisbonkers]

I don't know why, but I hear this many times and find it irritating, irrationally I suspect, but it sounds glib, and often not used in the right context.

Put me right (because I reckon I'm actually BU)

YANBU. What is the difference between tired, very tired and overtired? Either one is tired (and something needs to be done about it, depending on the degree of tiredness and options available) or one is not.
It seems to be a peculiarly English concept (have discussed this with Italian, French and Swiss friends with children, who all agree they have never come across the concept in their own language)... From the observation of friends, it appears to be used most after said friends have read particular childcare books that prescribe strict regimes- or else your child will become overtired and never fulfil his potential...

SuiGeneris, you've hit the nail on the head. I have never ever heard any of my Asian friends use the term (had my baby in Singapore).

I first came across it in a Gina Ford book, then in Baby Whisperer (I don't follow a routine, but was given these books)

Yes, my baby has been knackered and arches and pummels me when she's tired and can take 1/2 hour to breastfeed to sleep.

SuiGeneris I think, as described by several posters here, the difference between those is that a 'tired' or even a 'very tired' child will tend to be reasonably docile and go to bed fairly willingly, where they will fall asleep without a fuss; while an 'overtired' child will become hyperactive and unreasonable and will be unwilling to go to bed. It will be much harder to get them into a state where they are ready to fall asleep.

I think it's quite a useful word really, as it aptly describes the (rather big) difference between the behaviours of a 'tired' or 'overtired' child.

Perhaps the Italian, French and Swiss are better at getting their children to bed as soon as they're tired and therefore haven't witnessed an overtired child. Or perhaps it is simply that we clever English have created a new word to define a subtlety, previously unnamed. (We are rather good at that ) If phenomena exist which cannot be aptly described in the existing vocabulary, a new word gets created. And thank goodness otherwise we'd find ourselves feeling like Winston Smith in '1984'!

I doubt it has much to do with childcare books but I could be wrong.

"if they are tired just put them down for a nap then"

God I wish that worked

doris, when my 8mo is overtired it can take hours and several attempts to breastfeed him to sleep, he seems to find it entertaining to crawl with just his legs while latched on (which is quite entertaining actually as he is still feeding with his bum up in the air!) or just feed for 5 minutes and then arch/scream/refuse/bite me (and grin) - but then complains when you put him down to crawl, try to play with him, put him in his bouncer, even just when you hold him - and you deduce that he is tired because of how long it has been since he last slept but WHY won't he just go to sleep?

I think the problem is that if DS is tired he needs a calm unstimulating environment to wind down before bed, he can't possibly go to sleep when he's excited by cats, toys, TV, people talking, all these things. He becomes overstimulated and upset and when I take him to a calm, quiet, darkened room to put him to bed it's like he's not overstimulated any more, but because he's so wired from all these other things he doesn't want to just go to sleep calmly, he wants to crawl around and play, which can take an hour or 2 to work out of his system and in the meantime if I interact too much, he is getting more stimulation, but since he sleeps in a sidecar cot and there are no sides on our bed, I can't leave him safely to play alone, it's often easier to bring him back downstairs and let him amuse himself while trying to keep it calm and unstimulating (Which isn't always possible)

The absolute best thing I've found for overtiredness, btw, is putting them in the buggy outside - it seems to calm DS down straight away and he loves looking at the trees, cars etc and falls asleep quite quickly (you can help this along by rocking the pushchair as well!) I only do it for daytime naps though as I can't get the buggy upstairs and he's too big for a carrycot.

Cherrychoc, I don't have a buggy.

It's not something I come across in Russia either. Mind you they wrap their kids up too tight to notice what they're doing.

'Overstimulated' is another word that rubs me up the wrong way

Why doris?

Leonie, I'm not particularly lucky as my baby doesn't nap much and takes a while to breastfeed to sleep. But yes, take your point and bests.

I take that back then regarding autistic children, no offence intended.

But yes, it has got my goat, when I've heard it spouted pusillanimous parents as a reason not to do something.

I don't like "overtired", it's not good english.

It's a bit like saying "110%", it just grates.

Well...perhaps you could invent a new word for it LTOS Not sure how we decide whether something is 'good' english or not. In all likelihood, there are words and phrases we use now that weren't considered 'good english' 100 years ago but are now.

110% is not ideal, I agree, in terms of sense. But we all know what people mean when they say it, so it matters not.

But actually...I've oftened wondered about 110%. Now, I'm not a mathematician by any stretch but I thought it was possible for something to increase by over 100%...or did I imagine that?

I admit to using this phrase, although I agree, it's a bit meaningless, really, and very played out.

What I mean, really, is just 'tired'. I can see a deterioration in my DS's behaviour towards the end of the day and so do make more allowances for him then. He almost always tantrums/acts up late afternoon, when he is exhausted from the day.