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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be amazed at how easy it seems to be to rip of tax credits!!

80 replies

icedcoffeecake · 06/06/2009 10:04

turns out after talking to two mumsn from school that mum one has put down her husbands yearly income at £8000 less to get more money and another claims that her childminding friend looks after her dd an gets £100 a week for this (£50 of which she actually gives to her mum for watching said dd)

how many others over the country must be doing this and why dont they get caught?

i will be calling the helpline and reporting btw!

OP posts:
coolma · 06/06/2009 12:08

God, I had no idea you weren't checked up on! I have been so stupidly honest. Mind you, I couldn't bear the thought of wondering if or when i was going to get caught. You know, I LOATHE benefit cheats almost more than anything

MANATEEequineOHARA · 06/06/2009 12:10

Shoshe That would be a really simple way to stop people claiming on childcare fraudulently. I think they must be really understaffed.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 12:13
raggedtrouseredphilanthropist · 06/06/2009 12:33

I am amazed at this! I have been claiming WTC and CTC for just over a year as a lone parent, and even though they have never asked for my P60, I assumed they would know as they have my NI number etc... I even declared my extra earnings from last year (they assumed I earned about a grand less than I did), and actually got extra money for some reason. I am sure it pays to be honest, in some way.
I would never DARE cheat the system, as (apart from it being wrong to do so) it all catches up with you, and they will ask for it back.
Or so I have been led to believe...
that people do this, steal from the system and then make CTC and WTC a massive expense that I am sure the next government is going to try to cut down

coolma · 06/06/2009 12:45

Tee hee Lovelytin - am v tempted!

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 12:46

I wonder what proportion of people do lie on TC? Would be fascinating to know.

I don't [good girl emoticon]

coolma · 06/06/2009 12:49

So, can i ask something...I am currently on a fixed term contract for three months, which is obviously paying at a third of the annual salary, so we told tc's that my annual income was going to be that sum, which is the truth for these three months - now I have been told I will be kept on and therefor my salary will be three times what I have told them - as from september. Are you all saying that if I didn't tell them, but left it, they may never find out?

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 12:56

ROFL that's not lying to top cat, obviously

coolma · 06/06/2009 14:57

I wouldn't do it, but the thought that people do...

tigermoth · 06/06/2009 15:21

Some years ago, when child tax credits for childcare were being introduced, I was looking for a childminder.

One of the CMs I saw charged over double the going rate. I queried why her rates were so inflated.

She reassured me that I would not acturally be paying more than the going rate, but on paper it would be the top rate as the child tax credit system would pay all of this.

She had an accountant who would go through this with me, tell me what I could claim without me having to pay more, but it meant she, the childminder would get extra money from the government. She hinted there would be money in it for me, too. Sounded like a fiddle to me and I left pdq.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 16:01

tigermoth

I am strongly of the belief that a certain proportion of people are honest, and a certain proportion not, and neither side can imagine the things that the other side does.

For eg my neighbour bribed a traffic warden the other day. I would not have the slightest idea how to do that, what to say, how much money etc. And I would be too scared to try. Yet some people just seem to know stuff like that.

BeehiveBaby · 06/06/2009 16:08

I am a bit confused about this too. I rang to tell them I was now working and they said not to worry about it and that they would just use last year's income to calculate for the year we are in now. We were previously calculated 'live' as it were, so we will get two years of payments at the lower income assessment level now.

susiey · 06/06/2009 19:47

My dh andI am self employed ( and totally absolutely honest about our earnings by the way!) and always dread our tax credit review as i worry that we'll owe them money.

I could see that it would be well easy t fiddle though if you were that kind of person.

report them because its not fair on us honest people

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 19:54

beehive it might be worth asking them to recalculate so you don't end up being overpaid and having to pay it back IYSWIM

ihavenewsockson · 06/06/2009 20:00

spam- dh and i are self employed and we do not bend the rules.

curlygal · 06/06/2009 20:03

am shocked at the childminder and her accountant tigetmoth - suppose it is like "tax avoidance" practiced by the rich - they know the rules and get round them to end up paying hardly any tax.

I can see how it would be easy to inflate your claim.

All they ask for is weekly childcare costs, not hourly rate, or how many hours etc.

I am too paranoid to misclaim and I tell them of every change asap and so my annual review had about eight changes on it and my nursery fees changed everytime my work hours did etc.

I work 17.5 hours a week and pay 25 hours a week nursery fees but that doesn;t get queried.

LovelyTinOfSpam · 06/06/2009 20:07

Ihavenewsockson I'm sure you don't.

But lots of people do.

Are your new socks comfy? Wish I had some

canttouchthis · 06/06/2009 20:12

YA definately NBU. the theiving b*stards shouldn't get away with it. strange how so many on here are encouraging the OP to contact HMRC yet she doesn't know the full details of both families on what they are earning or claiming to be earning... strange that...

Ninkynork · 06/06/2009 20:16

susiey we are in a similar situation. In the first year of DH's business when he was building it up he earned next to nothing and we had £170 p.w WTC / CTC thrown at us plus HB and CTB. I was soooooooo scared! We lived on a shoestring for that year because I was convinced we'd have to pay it back.

Business has picked up over the last couple of years and we have had all the benefits quite rightly cut down or removed so not any better off money-wise but it feels good to be a tax-payer again and to be more independent.

I imagine some people would be quite content to go on claiming that business was still slow no matter what they earned, and to rake it in.

It's great that we have had the opportunity to do this, that families are supported when an individual makes his or her way through hard work and enterprise. It makes sense when jobs are scarce for people to create their own. Hooray for NuLab in that respect!

canttouchthis · 06/06/2009 20:21

is that how much you get on WTC if you are self-employed, ninkynork? is that £170/wk WTC AND £170/wk CTC? no wonder the rest of us are struggling along! no offence but that's more than some people get going out to work 5 days a week. not making a dig at you personally, just really shocked at how much self employed get while they start up.

oldraver · 06/06/2009 20:30

I can never understand why they dont ask for evidence as you have to give the 'exact' amount but seemingly no proof

When I went to renew mine I had one P60 but not the second one. The girl was quite shirty in wanting the exact to the penny figure even though I was way inside the limit for the tax credits I'm getting, and it wouldn't of mattere dif they had of used last years figure and I had only a minimal pay rise

Ninkynork · 06/06/2009 20:35

It was for a family of four, £170 p.w and most of the rent and council tax paid, not two lots of £170 p.w but shockingly high IMO. You can see why people declare a really low income for years can't you?

I often wonder if men who have no intention of getting a job claim to be SE rather than have to go and prove they're looking for one to get JSA.

Not sure what you mean about going out to work five days per week, my DH did work well over the 30 hours tax credits gave us the bonus for, he has to go out every day to meet up with clients and takes phone calls at all hours. He often works well into the evening and always at weekends.

TheBolter · 06/06/2009 20:37

While I don't agree with benefit fraud, the govt are mugs for making the system so easy to fiddle.

Ninkynork · 06/06/2009 20:48

Oh and despite the hours put in and the expenses, petrol mainly, hunting clients, he earned on av £50 p.w so it wasn't as if we were we rolling in it! I wouldn't mind if we were paying off a mortgage and had less to live on but we're stuck in a small HA house on a dreadful estate so there is that.

I am just glad of the chance and tbh if it hadn't have worked I'd be ashamed to continue for years at that rate even though cases like ours make the unemployment stats look much better than they really are.

canttouchthis · 06/06/2009 21:54

ninkynork, your H has certainly put the hours in then, and I'm not slating people that try and make a go of a business they set up, good for you. It can't be easy, esp as a family of four. you can't have the same flexibility to increase your earnings by working OT, like you can in a 'regular' job (as an employee).

"I often wonder if men who have no intention of getting a job claim to be SE rather than have to go and prove they're looking for one to get JSA."

Ha, this is something I've been wondering about a relative of mine. Have no proof as yet, but it wouldn't really surprise me if this is what has been happening to make them afford their lifestyle on benefits.

It's surprising how many people are committing benefit fraud and actually getting away with it, under our noses aswell...